Building a New Dream After an Autism Diagnosis with Brittney + Shannon (Moms Talk Autism)

Today I’m sitting down with Brittney and Shannon, two out of the four moms from Moms Talk Autism, a podcast where good friends share their journeys figuring out in real time how to best support their kids and themselves, discussing school, family balance, siblings, grief, therapies, social issues, behaviors, delays, diagnosis advocacy, marriage, and more.

Our conversation highlights their individual stories, Brittney with four kids - two with Autism, both with very different needs and Shannon with an 18 year old and 10 y/o daughter with Autism. They offer honesty, wisdom and advice for other parents in the trenches with them - where there’s no rulebook and a lot of pressure, spanning from protecting your peace, finding your people, and building a new dream.

As we wrap up, they reflect on the beautiful ways they’ve changed as people as a result of parenting their kids.

IN THIS EPISODE, WE COVERED...

• Trusting your gut when you know something is wrong
• "My child has not changed, your perception of them has..."
• Moments that are gut-wrenching alongside moments of gratitude

DON'T MISS-

• Diversifying your friendship portfolio

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Transcript

Brittney Crabtree  0:00  

You have this expectation, this picture in your mind of what your family is going to be like, right? And either you are going through or you receive that diagnosis - of whatever it is, and that dream, that picture, that beautiful expectation, is then shattered into a million pieces, right? And it's life altering. And we always like to remind people, your child has not changed, but your perception of them has, right? Your expectation of what their life is going to be like has changed irrevocably, and what are you going to do at that point? Well, when you break something, you think that you're supposed to glue it back together. No, we're telling you that that's not what you're supposed to do in this case. In this case, you need to find some new material, and you need to build a new dream.

Danielle Bettmann  0:56  

Ever feel like you suck at this job? Motherhood I mean. Have too much anxiety and not enough patience? Too much yelling, not enough play? There's no manual, no village, no guarantees. The stakes are high. We want so badly to get it right, but this is survival mode. We're just trying to make it to bedtime. So if you're full of mom guilt, your temper scares you, you feel like you're screwing everything up, and you're afraid to admit any of those things out loud - this podcast is for you.

This is Failing Motherhood. I'm Danielle Bettman, and each week we'll chat with a mom ready to be real, showing her insecurities, her fears, her failures and her wins. We do not have it all figured out. That's not the goal. The goal is to remind you you are the mom your kids need. They need what you have. You are good enough, and you're not alone. I hope you pop in earbuds, somehow sneak away and get ready to hear some hope from the trenches. You belong here, friend, we're so glad you're here.

Hey, it's Danielle. Today, I am sitting down with Brittney and Shannon, two out of the four moms of Moms Talk Autism - a podcast where good friends share their journeys, figuring out in real time how to best support their kids and themselves, discussing school, family, balance, siblings, grief, therapies, social issues, behaviors, delays, diagnosis, advocacy, marriage and so much more. Our conversation today highlights their individual stories. Brittney with four kids, two with autism, both with very different needs, and Shannon with an 18 year old and a 10 year old daughter with autism. And they offer honesty, wisdom and advice for other parents in the trenches with them, where there's no rulebook and a lot of pressure, spanning from things like protecting your peace, finding your people and building a new dream. As we wrap up, they reflect on the beautiful ways that they have changed as people as a result of parenting their kids, and it's those moments of gratitude that we all can't get enough of. So enjoy my conversation with Brittney and Shannon. 

Welcome to Failing Motherhood. My name is Danielle Bettman on today's episode, I am joined by Brittney and Shannon from Moms Talk Autism. Thank you guys so much for being here. I feel like we just talked because I was on your podcast, like a week or two ago, so we just get to swap and see each other again, which is really, really fun. So thanks for taking the time to share your stories and your advice with my listeners. So go ahead, if you wouldn't mind - who are you? Who's in your family? 

Brittney Crabtree  3:55  

We both point at each other at the same time.

Shannon Korza  3:58  

Okay, I'll go first. I'm Shannon Korza. I am 41, right Brittney? I think I'm 41. 

Brittney Crabtree  4:04  

Yep, you are. 

Shannon Korza  4:05  

I live in Tucson, Arizona with my husband, Jay. He is retired law enforcement, now a flight paramedic, and my two wonderful daughters who are losing their minds in the front room right now, one of which is 18 - Maya, and the other, which is just 9, who is Gracie. And Gracie is my neuro spicy child.

Brittney Crabtree  4:29  

and I am Brittney Crabtree. I live in the Sacramento area in California. We were just comparing temperatures. We're up there today as well. And I live with my husband, Doug. We've been married for - it'll be 22 years in a couple of months, which is crazy. And I have four kids, so my oldest will be 20 next week, and that is a whole nother ball game that I am not prepared for, but we'll cross that bridge when we get there. So he is currently going to, you know, community college, and working here, living at home. My 17 year old son, Austin, is autistic and non speaking,  quite profound, and needs a lot of support and help. So he'll be with us to the end, as we say, and then I've got Tyler, who is 16, and he is going to be a junior in high school coming up in the fall here. He's really into cross country and track, and is kind of my strong, silent one who just he's a man of few words, which is great, I love him. I love him. And then Ruby, my 10 year old little girl, our little bonus at the end, is our princess. And she's also autistic. She is able to be at a general education elementary school with her peers, but then she's like, pulled out for certain classes in certain parts of her day. She kind of is like a hybrid approach, where she's a special needs class and then she's also part of a general education class, and that works well for her. Austin is in a private autism school nearby, and they also have other neurodiverse diagnoses there, but mainly autism, and that's a better fit for him. So that's my family. 

Danielle Bettmann  6:14  

Perfect and Brittney, will you go ahead and introduce the other two moms that are a part of Moms Talk Autism as well? 

Brittney Crabtree  6:21  

Yeah, there's four of us. We all live in different parts of the US. So yeah, Shannon's in Arizona. I'm in California. Jean, our, our sweet little Jean is recently divorced and doing single mom life. So that's a whole nother ball game for her. She is in Austin, Texas, and she has two kids, and Tash, our Tashi Tash, we call her, is in the Portland, Oregon area. She lives in Washington State, just over the border, and she also has two children. So that's our group. 

Danielle Bettmann  6:52  

Well, I'm sure the question you always get asked, which I have to ask, is, how did you guys initially connect? 

Brittney Crabtree  6:57  

Go ahead, Shannon, you tell the story. 

Shannon Korza  6:59  

Oh, okay, well, we actually met during the pandemic on Instagram, which was kind of wild, and we were in one big group Instagram chat, and it kind of like whittled down, like some of us stuck it out, others didn't, and we ended up on Marco Polo. So we always say that they should be a sponsor of our podcast, because we talk about them all the time. Marco Polo, but you know, it was a huge lifeline for us during the pandemic, and being able to see each other while we were talking and stay in touch with one another, and have moms who really understood what our life was like, especially in such a lonely time as the pandemic, when you couldn't even leave your home, you know, so trying to, you know, everybody's trying to homeschool their kids, and we're trying to keep IEPs together at home, and it was a little bit of a nightmare. So we ended up planning a girls trip, and we all went to the Pacific Northwest, and we were like, let's start a podcast. And we did.

Brittney Crabtree  8:02  

sounds like a great idea,

Danielle Bettmann  8:07  

What was the vision for the podcast? How would you describe it for people who haven't heard of it? 

Shannon Korza  8:13  

So it really started out as we all had these common stories of just feeling really alone in the beginning of the diagnosis. And you know, we all feel like we have great families, you know, for the most part, and family is amazing, and they love you, and they they try to understand as much as they can, so do your friends. But until you really live a life with you know, a child with exceptional needs, you can't truly understand what it's like and the isolation that comes along with that sometimes. And so we just really wanted other parents to be able to feel that they were not alone. Like, we get you, we see you, we know exactly what you're going through. And like, there's hope out there. There are people out there who really understand you, who love you, and it's kind of like we really wanted it to be, like, grab your cup of coffee, pop on the podcast, and let's talk, let's talk about life, and let's talk about the things that we may not tell other people because they don'tget it.

Danielle Bettmann  9:14  

So needed. So needed, and nobody could talk about it like you can for sure when you're in the trenches, you know like nobody can disclaim your personal experience. And I think it's so critical to find your people. And know you're not alone. There's so much mental health that comes from just that solidarity aspect, for sure. Has there been, like, a favorite, most listened to episode or a conversation that like rose to the top for you guys personally? 

Brittney Crabtree  9:46  

We have a couple that come to mind, Shannon feel free to jump in too. But we recently recorded an episode with Ashley Lewis of Lewis Empire. She is on social media quite prominently and her daughter is 14 and has gone through, you know, the process of, like, puberty and, like, starting her cycle and all those, like, lovely things you do when you become a teenager and you're a female. And we both have daughters who are autistic. Presley's also autistic, and she was able to just kind of answer questions and talk us through what it's like to have a daughter start her cycle, you know, and be neurodivergent and that, as she says, on her platform, and it's it comes up quite often on ours too, that people really have that question, because that's a big life change, as the three of us know, and to be able to go through that, but maybe not be able to explain it in the way you would do a typical child, or for them to even maybe even comprehend fully what's happening at their current state - that was, that was a huge piece, and we need to continue to keep talking about it, and we will. We hope to have Ashley on again to talk about it and just our own experiences as it happens with our children, our daughters, that's a big one. And then we get a lot of feedback about anything with, like, what we wish we would have known maybe, like, early diagnosis looking back, you know, not necessarily regrets or like, oh, I screwed this all up, but if I had known this, maybe I would have done this instead. You know, maybe this part would have gone a little smoother, things like that. 

Danielle Bettmann  11:24  

Yeah, just benefiting from that hindsight, that makes sense. 

Shannon Korza  11:27  

Yeah. I think the other one that gets a lot of traction has to do with siblings, and the effect that this life has on the neurotypical siblings. You know, we had a wonderful guest on and then my oldest actually got on that episode. Also, just to have a really honest conversation. A lot of special needs parents, we have a lot of guilt with our neurotypical children and the responsibility that they get thrust into. They have to grow up a little faster, you know, than the average kiddo. And also, I mean, without taking it too dark here, you know what happens when we're gone, like for the most part, our you know, neurodivergent kiddos are now our other children's responsibility in some way, shape or form. So that one resonates a lot for parents, because they have a lot of questions on maybe what they can do differently. You know, in their home and we are by no means - we say literally every episode, we give a disclaimer where we're like, we are not experts. We are trying to figure out our lives. So we're just kind of here to share how we're winging it and what works for us. But yeah, that one is another one that's really popular. 

Danielle Bettmann  12:36  

That make sense, completely? Yeah, and that was the perfect segue, because typically the way that I start my interviews is I kind of to have a prerequisite to pre qualify -you know, who I bring on the podcast. We know it's called Failing Motherhood, but anybody we don't know, we typically tend to put them on a pedestal, they have their life together and they have it all figured out. So I like to ask, have you ever felt like you were failing motherhood?

Brittney Crabtree  13:03  

just this minute or the last hour or today? How many times have I felt that way? We feel that way a lot. For me, just within our group dynamic, I have, you know, twice as many children as anyone else. I have four. Everyone else has two. So automatically, I feel like I'm at a disadvantage that way, just dividing my time evenly between everyone. And it's, let's be honest, it's not even, that's not how it works. That's not life, right? So it's a constant juggling act of, okay, I need to focus on this child right now for this, you know, for this period of time, whatever that is, and these other kids are gonna, they'll be okay. I'm there, but you know, maybe you're gonna have to figure things out on your own a little bit. Okay, that's good for you, too. And then you switch, and it's like, okay, well, man, I've really put a lot of effort into these two for this particular reason, for whatever amount of time. Man, this one I haven't talked to or really focused on, in my boys or older. So I don't, you know, they don't typically talk to me either, right? So, like, man, I really haven't spent any time with this one in a couple of days. Man, maybe I should do a check in. So it's just this constant, like, back and forth. You feel like you're watching a tennis match, but there's like, four courts at once, and so you're just, you know, your head's swiveling back and forth and back and forth. So that's a lot of that can feel like failure if you if you feel like you you're neglecting you know, a child, or you're not paying attention enough to a particular child. They all have needs. They all need stuff. And my neurotypical kids, so my 20 year old and my 16 year old, they have learned through this process to become independent. If there's one thing we can say for these siblings of of neurodivergent kids, is they they grow up faster, sometimes, in some ways, they really do, and they learn to become little adults, and really have to take on more responsibility than some of their peers, in some avenues of life. So I find them not coming to me when they are struggling with something because they don't want to be a burden. And then that automatically makes me, as a mom, feel bad that I am not paying attention to them enough, or I'm maybe not in tune enough, or they don't feel comfortable talking to me. I can feel guilty about all sorts of things, for all sorts of reasons, right? And, I mean, we're really good at that as women. So that's hard. It's hard to not, sometimes go to bed at night and being like, man, I am really not doing a good job with these kids right now. So that's my, probably my biggest one, yeah. 

Shannon Korza  15:36  

I mean, I think, you know, I got on Marco Polo just yesterday, talking to Brittney about how I'm like, oh my God, I'm failing. Like, I just, I feel so out of alignment with what I wanted for this summer, you know. And I got into real estate a couple years ago, and I literally got into real estate so that we could invest income for Gracie's future, because we just don't know, like, what it's going to look like. And so, like, the reason I got into it was to take care of her, but then you know, Maya's moving out at the end of the summer. She's going to college, you know, she's going to be in a dorm. And so I, like, really wanted to be home this summer. Like, I'm going to tone things down, and I'm going to spend more time at home and be around my girls. And it just so happens I had, you know, like, three closings in the last week and a half, and so, like, I'm out of the house, and I've got a buyer from out of state who I showed, you know, 12 homes this weekend, and I'm like, I just want to be home. Like I promised myself I would be home this summer. And then everything is happening right now, where it just has to be right now. And I'm like, telling Brittney I'm doing this because I needed to take care of Gracie, like I have to have this, but then it's not in alignment with the things that I set forth, you know, and so just trying to figure it out and that's just one of many ways, you know, that I feel. 

Brittney Crabtree  16:58  

And I think that's super relatable, even if you don't have neurodivergent children. And I love that in this Marco Polo that Shannon was talking, I remember this conversation, she said, You know, I don't have an answer, and I'm not expecting one, but I just need to, like, talk it out. Because this is not lining up the way I planned it to be, right? It's all about expectation versus reality for anyone. And you know, that's the whole point of the podcast, and that's the whole point of us finding that community around you, especially people who maybe have kids with special needs,  or have family members with special needs, is they're going to be able to understand and you are able to talk it through with somebody else. You know, doesn't necessarily mean you're going to have all the answers, but you're gonna have somebody who can really empathize, 

Danielle Bettmann  17:43  

Yeah, so critical, especially when there is no solution really. You're stuck in that like dichotomy between the expectation and the reality, like you said, but also, like the long term and the short term, and who you know you could be as a parent or want to be and have to be right now, or the capacity that you currently are dealing with and the things that are so out of your control.

Brittney Crabtree  18:07  

Like your own children's autonomy, you really don't have a lot of control over that, especially as they get older. Just gonna throw that one out there. 

Danielle Bettmann  18:16  

yes, yes.

There only becomes more nuanced, more complicated ways to feel like you're falling short, I'm sure. 

Brittney Crabtree  18:24  

Yeah,

Yeah, well, that's light and fluffy.

Let me turn this around. I don't know

Danielle Bettmann  18:32  

That's the reality again, like we wish that it was cupcakes and rainbows, and we know it's very much not, and the more we feel like the cupcakes and rainbows toxic positivity is forced onto us, the more misunderstood we feel, the more isolated and alone we feel. So it's always, I think, very comforting to know you're not the only one having a bad week, you're not the only one staying up late worrying. You're not the only one that wishes they could just vent to a friend and be able to have that opportunity still is really special. So building off of that, I'd love to hear a little bit more of your own stories. You know individually, kind of what that has looked like as you have found diagnosis and beyond. And I know that that could take up a whole podcast in and of itself for each one of those stories. So when given the platform, what are some of the highlights that it would just be painting the picture of the diversity that it can look like to be raising, you know, kids on the spectrum like this. Brittney, do you want to start?

Brittney Crabtree  19:33  

Sure, yeah. So starting off, I have an interesting dynamic, because I do have two children who have both been diagnosed with the same thing, but it presents itself very, very differently in each of them, and that's not only because of their age or their gender, but because of their ability or the the severity of their diagnosis, even the way they were diagnosed is vastly different, because of the changes and the updates that have happened over the last decade, really, in the autism world. So Austin was diagnosed. He's never spoke. Spoken. Is that the right word, right verb? I don't know. He's never been verbal. So he's never really talked to us before verbally. So at you know, you start being concerned about that at a very young age, 18 months, two years around there, and what tends to happen with these diagnoses of autism is they they check speech first. They check hearing, you know, because it's a communication issue usually at first. So we had all that checked out. Everything looked great very quickly, with some excellent doctors in our area, they diagnosed him with autism, and I knew something was wrong. Maybe I didn't have necessarily the word. I knew what autism was in theory. On paper, I literally have a degree in childhood psychology. I mean, I've taken classes on this, but I didn't have a lot of firsthand experience, so it rocked my world. Even having that background, it rocked my world. And so it was a slew of 40 hour a week therapy days for him. I mean, he was a full time two year old with a full time job, basically, and which meant I had a full time job. I had, you know, a four year old and a one year old and a kid who had therapists in my house all day long every day. And it was a lot. It was exhausting. Honestly, I have blocked a lot of it out. I don't remember a lot, and I think that's typical for a lot of you as we get older, we just forget all those early years where you're just physically exhausted all the time. And as things progressed with him and he grew older, it became very clear that things weren't going to, quote, get better, or he wasn't going to grow out of it. You know, this was going to be something that was going to be with him forever, and it continues. Where things really took a turn for us was puberty for Austin, and of course, that paired nicely with the pandemic for him, we had a double whammy there. So services were scarce, it was very difficult to get extra help. We did all of the physical things checking again to make sure we weren't dealing with hormonal imbalances, all sorts of stuff. But for Austin, where he is so limited with his communication and then all of these hormones and these body changes are happening, it manifested itself in a lot of anger and aggression. And for him, that was not only aggression towards other people, even those he loves the most, like mom and dad, but also himself. So he hurts himself also, and it is extremely gut wrenching. I don't know how else to describe it. It kills me to see him hurt himself and then try to hurt me only because he's frustrated. You know? He doesn't know how to tell me what he needs. We've tried all the things everybody and we'll continue to keep trying all the things. I've said this before. I'd almost rather have him hit me than hit himself. I would, because I can at least have a little bit of control and try to, like, block or defend or whatever. And it's really, really difficult. So that's, that's a dynamic that is completely shifted and changed our family, having people in our home, having friends over. What do we do when he starts getting aggressive? Then, you know, my daughter will scatter. She knows, like, that's not normal, that's not typical family life. So that that's a really significant difference. Even with myself, amongst, you know, the other girls in Moms Talk Autism, they've got some aggression too, but I've got the one who's, you know, post puberty at this point. So it's really tough. And then with Ruby, it manifested itself. It was a lot harder when she was a toddler, because she knew she could speak, she could communicate, but she would get frustrated really, really fast. And so it was a lot of you know, those typical two year, two and three year old meltdowns would happen, but it was extreme. And that can, that can bring a lot of guilt on with yourself, but it also brings a lot of judgment, because you've got this little two and three year old having a complete meltdown in a parking lot for an hour,  I'm not exaggerating, and you get a lot of, you know, judgmental looks, of like, you need to be firm with this kid, or whatever, whatever, you know, pick your  poison of comments I've heard over the years, or just strangers being really inappropriate. And as she's grown older, though, and she's learned to communicate more, she still struggles a lot. Transitions are really, really hard for her. Still as a 10 year old, she's been able to understand and we've been able to find techniques that help her. Now, I'm gearing up for that puberty phase again, knowing what I went through with my son, I am not expecting it to be the same, and it will not be the same, I guarantee you, but it is going to be difficult again, and so I am trying to mentally prepare myself and talk to people, maybe who have gone through it, like Ashley and others, and especially people, maybe who've gone through it recently, so it's fresh for them, and try to help her understand the changes that are going to be happening to her body. I didn't even understand it at 13-14, are you kidding me? Like I can't imagine. So, yeah, that's kind of the dynamic of my family in the diagnosis process, the way that we even diagnosed Austin with the doctors and the hoops you jumped through and the requirements, even though they were both in the state of California, it was done very differently, which is kind of interesting. It's probably even different again now. They were both diagnosed around the age two and three. But it's just, kind of fascinating how even the medical world has changed, and is kind of honing in on how to help our kids and help ourselves with the early diagnosis, so which is so interesting and so needed too, because we're constantly getting new information about this, and it makes sense that our modalities, then would change with that pace. And I'm glad that there has been that progression, but I'm sure that it's just confusing, because it, you know, every parent is kind of making it up as they go. We sure are. And you feel a little bit like a guinea pig or a lab rat, you know, especially if you have to dive into the world of prescription medications or even supplements, you do feel like a lab rat. Your child feels like lab rat. And that is also another level of like, man, I feel like I have a lot of responsibility on my shoulders, and if I screw this up, I'm going to feel really, really guilty about it. But then you have, you have to try, and you get desperate enough, or things get bad enough where you have to, you have to look at it. Yeah, that's also a constant struggle in our house.

Danielle Bettmann  27:03  

That makes sense. And quick last question for you, and then we'll move into Shannon's story. What were the symptoms you recognized that ended up, you know, bringing you into that round two with Ruby? 

Brittney Crabtree  27:14  

with her diagnosis.

So the beautiful thing about having one of those silver linings of having a child that has already been diagnosed and having three boys, you know, I raised, or was raising three other children. I knew what to look for. If Ruby had been my oldest, I don't think I would have pushed or known to look as quickly. I would have thought I would have had a very strong willed child, maybe. Or that, yeah, we were delayed in speech, but she would, you know, quote, catch up, you know, things like that. But because we don't know a lot about autism and what causes it, or what all the framework is, but we do know that there is a strong genetic component to it, and if you have one child that's diagnosed with autism, your chances of having another increase quite a little bit. So I knew that was a possibility, and so I really pushed to have her tested early. And it was because of the communication. It was the elevated temper tantrums. And these meltdowns that, you know, a typical two year old has often, but the length and the severity of them was more than I thought was appropriate for her age. And knowing those things and already having some of those early intervention pieces in place with speech, I just really pushed to get that diagnosis, or to at least have her tested. And sure enough, my instincts were correct. And so that's something I really try to emphasize - we all do on our podcast is if something, if your mama gut is telling you something, even if every professional you talk to is saying no, or your parents or your spouse or whatever is saying, I don't know, I don't know, you do it, the absolute worst thing that's going to happen is you might have to pay for some testing, and maybe you get a diagnosis, but then you have a diagnosis, and then there's tools that open up to you with that diagnosis that are going to help you. And that's so key. Maybe you don't get a diagnosis, okay, then you can eliminate that, maybe, and then you can move forward and look at other things. It's only in the end, it's only going to empower you and help you and help your child. I know it's scary, but it's really, really important that you do that, if that's what your mama gut is telling you, and so that's what I tried to do. I try to do all the time with my kids. Yeah, it's just information. Information is power. The more information the better. 

Danielle Bettmann  29:35  

Yes, absolutely Thank you for sharing that,  that level of detail. Appreciate it.

Danielle Bettmann  29:47  

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Danielle Bettmann  31:47  

So Shannon, your turn.

Shannon Korza  31:48  

My turn. So you know my girls had a pretty big age gap. Maya was nine and a half when I had Gracie. And so it's like I raised another child before. So I knew what it was, quote, supposed to be like, but it also had been a very long time. So, you know, I think our biggest sign with Gracie that there was something going on was she was not responding to her name. So you would call her and she wouldn't even turn her head, we also started seeing some regression around her first birthday, where she would like to have skills or have a certain word and then all of a sudden, you know, it would be gone. That was kind of like between 12 and 18 months. And so we talked to her pediatrician about it, you know, at that 12 month visit and came to find out later we found out he actually had a son who was autistic. So he was very open to testing and going through all of that. And, you know, we were lucky enough to get started with early intervention at 18 months. And then comes all the therapies, right? So it was you know, before I had Gracie, I worked full time in the mortgage industry and my husband was in law enforcement. I'd always been a working mom, I had always planned to be a working mom, that was never even a question. Then I will say as I got closer to the end of my pregnancy, my husband was a little weary about putting our new baby in child care. He's a law enforcement officer. So they see a lot of things. And so we decided at that time that I was going to stay home with Gracie. So I mean, I was very blessed because now, at this time, while at least I have the time because we're going to live in our car because we have to drive all over Tucson for these therapies, you know, because they're not on our side of town. But then things changed a lot because I had had this vision of what it was going to look like being a stay at home mom. And this was not it, right? Like living in my car doing all of these therapies. It essentially, for us anyway, removed the option of having another child. We decided at that point, you know, if I were to have another child, that baby would live in my car with me all week, like this baby's gonna sit in a car seat, you know, for 50% of its day. It just at that point was a pretty life altering, you know, decision. So we decided not to have any more kids and a lot like Brittney, it's just changed the way that we have to do a lot of things. Gracie is you know, she's falls somewhere in between Ruby and Austin. She does have moments where she's aggressive. And it mostly stems from frustration from not being able to get what she wants her needs across. She does have words for a season like this weird gray area where it's like, she's not like she's not non speaking but she's not speaking. So she has words which she has to be very motivated to use them. She will not use them for everyone. So she's a little, you know, tricky on who she'll give up the words to. So there can be some frustration that stems from not being able to get her point across. You know, we took the kids on vacation last summer, over Gracie's birthday. And it becomes very obvious when Gracie needs to be removed from a situation. And it's not like a typical kid where you can negotiate a little bit, right? Like, we're gonna do five more minutes at the beach, and then we'll go do this. It is a hard stop, it is a nope, this is the moment in time and we are done. And we will move along. And that shows itself in many areas, you know, we may be at a friend's house for a barbecue or a birthday party, and then all of a sudden we're in the car and we're leaving, or we take two cars, and we know that one of us is leaving when Gracie is done and the other two can stay. It's changed. We do a lot more things out of our house. Now, instead of going to other people's houses, we invite people over because it's her comfort zone, it has reduced the people that we allow into our lives. Like if you cannot come into our home with an open mind and see our child the way that we see her you're not coming into our home. And so that can be isolating, it can change the way that you do a lot of things. And so I think the hardest things have been to get past the vision that you thought you were going to have in your life and readjust to your new expectations. And I think when it was going through the diagnosis for me, there was a ton of fear for me and I, I had never had anyone autistic in my life before. So I didn't know what that was going to look like. And as I sit there now, in hindsight it is 2020 and I have the experience. You know, I do tell people the fear stemmed from me worrying that I was not going to be able to be enough, I wasn't going to be able to show up for her in the way that she needed. I wasn't going to know what to do, you know, I was gonna fail in some way shape or form. And Gracie herself didn't change, right? Like when we got the diagnosis, she was still exactly the same person she was before we had the appointment. And I do want to touch on something that Brittney said. And that was, you know, the diagnosis fees can be extremely difficult - waitlists for specialists are insane. We were on a nine month waitlist for my daughter to see a developmental pediatrician, there were two of them in Tucson at the time. And, you know, by the time we got to that appointment, this woman sat with my daughter for 30 minutes and decided she wasn't autistic enough for a diagnosis. Because she maintains eye contact. So like, clearly she can't be autistic, right? And like Brittney said, I ended up finding a functional medicine doctor, and we went to see them and she was Board Certified but she's done some, you know, studying in China, she had done a lot of other things, and paid a significant amount of money for an appointment with her. And she spent four hours with my daughter, she was on the floor with my daughter building blocks with her. She was, you know, talking to Jay and I about our medical histories and things in our lives. And we walked away the next day with a diagnosis. So I think, you know, going back to just following your gut and taking the time. And I think a lot of parents put off testing, and they put off testing because they're afraid. It's understandable. I was absolutely petrified going through this. So I don't ever want anybody to feel bad. But I don't think that good things ever come out of making decisions based on fear. And I didn't want Gracie to be labeled. I didn't want her to have a designation that said who she was. But with that diagnosis, like Brittney said, a lot of tools open for her that she would not have received otherwise. And ultimately, like it has been the best decision.

Danielle Bettmann  38:55  

Well, thank you for speaking directly to the parent that I'm sure comes across your guys' feed. And with trepidation of like, I don't know if this applies to me yet I don't want it to or maybe it does. And I'm scared. Because there's a world of understandable reactions and valid emotions that come with being a parent to someone who you are figuring out. And don't invalidate your own experience by just trying to double down and focus on your kid because that does a disservice to them without being able to really understand what's going on with you. And sometimes it takes being able to hear the words of someone else put into words that you don't have words for yet. And I think that's what hearing stories often does is it brings to the surface some of the things that we're maybe not ready to think about or you know, make peace with yet. So that's exactly kind of what you've done. And if you would elaborate on speaking to other parents that are in the trenches with you where you know that they feel misunderstood, you know, they feel alone, what are some of the biggest things that have made the difference for you that you would advocate and encourage them to do?

Brittney Crabtree  40:13  

I think it is important to remember, we had this in our intro, and Shannon touched on it briefly. You have this expectation, this picture in your mind of what your family is going to be like, right? And either you are going through or you receive that diagnosis of whatever it is. And that dream, that picture, that beautiful expectation is then shattered into a million pieces, right? And it's life altering. And we always like to remind people, it's not your child has not changed, but your perception of them has right, your expectation of what their life is going to be like, has changed you irrevocably. And what are you going to do at that point? Well, when you break something, you think that you're supposed to glue it back together? No, we're telling you that that's not what you're supposed to do. In this case, in this case, you need to find some new material, and you need to build a new dream. And that is once you can wrap your head around that concept, there is an empowerment or a feeling of, I don't know, lightness is the wrong word. But you feel empowered, and you feel energized, and you're ready to begin the work, right. And it's not easy. And you have to make it up a lot, like you said, and that our podcast and your podcasts and other, you know, avenues out there, whether that's social media, or in your local community, those are all pieces, they're going to help you make that new dream. We don't have all the answers here for us, but we can share our experiences. And that can be maybe one piece that you can add to your your new expectation, your new dream, your new picture of your family. And we're still trying to make ours up to like, we have holes in our picture too. And you can't even rely on your own childhood, necessarily, unless you had a sibling, or you grew up with somebody who was neurodivergent, you don't even have that to look back on. So we tend to parent or not parent, like our own, you know, mother and father or whoever you grew up with, on purpose, like you, you make that conscious decision, like, oh, this really worked for me, I'm going to do it just like this, because my parents did this part really great. Or, man, my parents were really, really bad at that, I'm gonna do the opposite of what they did. Like you compare yourself and you parent accordingly. And you can't do that if you have a child with the diagnosis necessarily, you have to make it up, you have to literally start from ground zero. And so I think that's really, really important to remember. And to keep in mind, it's not about fitting your family into this, this neurotypical 2.5 kids with a dog with a white picket fence. And that's not you, that's not what's on the table for you, you get to make up your own thing. And it might actually be better. It might, I think it's worth considering. And I think it's worth keeping in the back of your mind. And then the last thing I'll say, is because you have to go through that process, when that picture is dropped, and it shatters. You need to allow yourself to grieve it is the death of that expectation. And it is a death, it needs to be treated as such with your emotions. And you are allowed to go through the grief process. And we have a whole series on that. That's another one that we haven't mentioned that we think is really, really important to listen to, you're going to go through possible stages of denial, anger, you know all of those things. And then you're going to come out the other side. And you're going to be in a better place to raise your child and to help your family. And then the next hurdle is going to come your way. And you're going to have to cycle through that grief cycle again, and again, and again and again. And it doesn't necessarily get easier. But you do get better at it. Maybe you're able to cycle through that anger piece a little faster, this round, you know, or whatever it is. So I always - I am preaching to the choir here like Shannon and I need to hear this just as much as all as you do, like we have to remind yourself constantly and that's why it's so good to have those friends out there who can be like, you know what, I think you're grieving a little bit on this one. Maybe you give yourself a little grace, like chill out a little bit. Take a step back. We need those people in our lives to say that to us.

Danielle Bettmann  44:39  

What would you add Shannon?

Shannon Korza  44:41  

Well, I'm just over here like Brittney didn't say you need to diversify your friendship portfolio because that is Brittney's key line that she says every time. I think you know, to steal from Brittney's key line that she likes to drop, you know you do have to find people that understand you. And I think if there were some things that I wish I would have known back then it would have been plug into those, you know, Gracie went to a special needs preschool that's through the school district, plug into those parents - get to know those parents, because those are going to be your humans, they're going to understand, you know, when they get into elementary school, plug in to those parents and get to know them. Gracie's school just this year started doing a quarterly picnic for they call it "The Bridge Department". Those are, you know, some of the special needs kiddos. And you know, once a quarter, we go an hour early and we meet, you know, in the center area of the school and we all bring our lunch and we have like a picnic together with the kids there. And if you can't do that, like if you're just not there yet, start finding your people on social media. Like if I would not have been on Instagram, I would not have gotten to know any of these three women and I have no idea what my life would look like right now.

Brittney Crabtree  46:00  

There's lots of really great places on there. Yeah, there's lots of bad stuff, too. There are a lot of bad things. So like, wait it out. But there's lots of really, really good stuff on there. 

Shannon Korza  46:02  

Yeah, protect your peace. I had to leave a lot of Facebook groups going through the diagnosis, the first thing I did was join all the Facebook groups because I felt like I needed to learn everything. And then I'm like, whoa, every other post in this group is negative and I can't do this right now. I'm out. I think the other thing is, you know, there were nights when Gracie was diagnosed, where I would put her to sleep, and I would literally cry over her bed. And I would pray and I would just, I didn't know what life was gonna look like. And I want it to be, you know, so good for her. And I was thinking about it last night, because I have been trying very hard. I am a high anxiety human, I am a control freak, people welcome to my world. Yeah, I've been trying to take a little more time for myself. And I was like, I'm gonna go out in the backyard. Because it's the only time it's not 9 million degrees. It's like 7pm. And I'm gonna do a little bit of breath work, a little bit of meditation and one of the meditations, it has to be led, because I'm a control freak. So my brain will go in every direction. So it has to be a hero in that. Yeah, it has to be a lead meditation thing. But it was all about, you know, gratitude. And as I'm sitting there, the first thing that pops into your mind, you know, and it was a picture of last night, Gracie was laying on the couch. And she was like, kind of like snuggling with her iPad. And she was watching something that was funny. So she was like giggling, and she's got the best giggle and, you know, Maya had come over and was like, tickling her feet. And like that picture was in my head. And I was so thankful for it. And I was thinking, because I was no longer following my lead meditation, that if I would have seen this picture, then I would not have been as terrified. And I think that we live in a world where sometimes we go to worst case scenario. And we forget that that's not necessarily the way that things are going to end up. And so if you're going through something like this, I just, it's not going to feel it's not going to relate right now. Because you are going to be in fear, and you are going to be in that place. But just know that what comes, you know, three, four or five years later, is not what you're so worried about, like there is all of this positive stuff on the other side, that could be waiting there for you. And you don't have to be the person that worries about every thing that could go wrong, you know, in that five, six year span, and you could save yourself a lot of tears and anxiety and heartache and savoring those moments when they pop up, like just savor them and that's whether you're a neurotypical, you know, yeah, neurotypical neurodiverse. Like, those are the moments those are the core memories, so you just have to really savor them as they come off.

Brittney Crabtree  49:06  

I think I think we're more in tune with that. And we really, really celebrate those little teeny tiny victories if that's something that I've learned from this that's that's a huge component of it. And I just want to piggyback really quick on the diversifying your friendship portfolio, if you find those other moms who are in that preschool group or in the special needs, whatever, that's great. But you can also train your people, okay. You find the ones who are willing, and you hold on to those people. My parents are 100% on board. My brother has five children of his own all neurotypical very busy job life in a different state. He flies down every year to stay with my family, my kids for one weekend to give me a break. He's in que, he's all the way in. And we are so grateful for him and his wife for willing to take that time and energy for him to do that. And it is not easy. Like remember aggression, like, it's not easy, but he does that. Find those people, it doesn't necessarily have to be a family member, I have some friends who are willingly coming over to my house and dealing with all of our stuff. So I can take my husband out for his birthday, things like that. So you can train them to, it's a lot of work on your part. And you have to be on board too, but they can train themselves and then they can work with you to be trained as well.

Danielle Bettmann  50:35  

It is concentrated so much good advice into like, five minutes, that was amazing. I know, there's plenty more where that came from, for sure. And so much of it translates to and it's almost like a tarot card, like, take what you need, leave the rest. Like, you know, it's all up to your interpretation of what you need to hear right now. Whatever phase you're in, whatever season you're in of parenting, it's pretty universal. Because you do need to let unsolicited feedback go, you do need to be able to embrace your people that are all in and take some of the pressure off yourself to prevent everything that could possibly go wrong for your child and feel personally held responsible for you know, everything going smoothly. There's just so much that is that relinquishing control that we are so not excited about letting happen. But it's not a choice. It's happening. It's how do we support ourselves through that mental gymnastics as well. But I think from from there, we can start to move into kind of wrapping up because there's so much to process I'll re remind all my listeners how they can find and connect with the podcast and you guys.

Shannon Korza  51:46  

Brittney is looking at me so I'll go. So the podcast is on all the players. So if you search Moms Talk Autism, you'll find it anywhere you listen to your podcasts, and then we are most active on Instagram, and that's @momstalkautism, we're pretty easy to find. We're not much on Facebook, like whatever, translates from Instagram to Facebook will be there. But we don't ever just post on Insta or on Facebook. So don't find us there. And then you can email us at hello@momstalkautism, which momstalkautism.com is the website.

Danielle Bettmann  52:23  

Perfect. Yeah, we'll have all those links in the show notes to easily click to you. But then I have to ask you the question I ask every guest that comes on Failing Motherhood which is how are you, the parent your kid and kids need?

Shannon Korza  52:38  

Brittney go.

Brittney Crabtree  52:39  

I should have taken the other one first. I am the parent that my kids need because of the experiences I have had so far, raising them. I am harder. Because of the experiences I have. I'm calloused. I've, you know, I've got some bumps and some hard spots on me now, I've got a thicker skin. I'm also softer, because of the experiences, I am able to really empathize. And if you are struggling and you've gone through maybe some of the similar things that I've gone through, I get it, I understand. And I don't know if I would be able to do that if I hadn't gone through the things I had, if I didn't have my own neurodiverse children it would be really hard to kind of get it without being in the work. And just again, I really celebrate those little joys more. I really try to at least because they can be few and far between. And they are very precious to me, because they don't come up very often, especially with Austin right now. It's a struggle when he wakes up in the morning and he's all sleepy eyed and snuggly and warm. And he reaches out his arm and he grabs me around the waist because he's bigger than I am literally bigger, taller, stronger, heavier, all the things and he pulls me in to a little snuggle sesh and he just buries his nose in my hair and we just you know, even if it's just a couple of minutes, I savor that as much as I possibly can. So that's probably how I can be there for my kids is trying to celebrate those little things and just really absorb each experience as it comes.

Shannon Korza  54:33  

Yeah. I like that. And we like snuggly Austin too because sometimes she'll Marco us when he's being super snuggly.

Brittney Crabtree  54:40  

It's pretty great. You know you're in the Austin Club when you get hair sniffs. If he grabs your head in a  headlock and he sniffs you and snuggles you then you are in. Welcome to the club.

Shannon Korza  54:50  

And he's massive. He's massive. So he literally has her in a headlock but it's the sweetest cuddliest little headlock you've ever seen.

Brittany Crabtree  54:57  

Yeah, it's WWE style.

Shannon Korza  54:59  

Yeah, so I think for me, you know, this journey has made me much more self aware, much less judgmental. I am much more open minded. I think if I would not have gone through this, I would have been the mom at Target looking at you if your kid was acting out, that would have been me.

Brittany Crabtree  55:17  

You wouldn't have said anything, but you would have given a look of like:

Shannon Korza  55:21  

Someone needs some discipline. Yeah. So it's almost like God put this you know, to me like you need to learn a lesson Shannon. I think that that has made me more like self aware of my children. Before Gracie, if you would have told me that my child could be having a complete meltdown losing her mind and I would be able to kneel down and like hold her hand with like compassion and empathy and look in her eyes and talk to her, I would never have believed you because I was a pretty like disciplinarian parent before Gracie. So like the fact that I have that now, and I only have that because of her - like she has taught me that. And grace, like I have learned that I have to give myself grace. I am doing the very best that I can. And I have to hope that when my kids are older, they will look back and then they will see that she really did the best that she could. And so for me, I just really hold on to that belief. The other reason is I watch TikTok. No, I'm just kidding. So I did actually watch TikTok because Brittney is like eyeroll. The other day it said I had zero minutes in a week. So nobody tried to find me on Tik Tok. I don't ever post there ever. But there was this like Neuroscientist or something on TikTok one day and if it's on TikTok, it must be true. But he was talking about how a six second hug is enough to release the endorphins in you that will like calm you down. And so that is one thing that I have started with my kids is if I feel like they're getting really wound up or like every night before Gracie goes to bed. Maya got her anxiety levels from me, I'm sorry Maya,  my oldest. But like if Maya is like wrapped up, we'll do a six second hug. And like every night before Gracie goes to bed, we do a six second hug and I tell her six second hug and she like jumps in my lap and I count. And I'm like four, and then I say five like 19 times because I never want to let go like I never want to. She'll laugh and she'll say six, you know, and she'll jump out of my lap because I've said five 19 times. But you know, it's just those little moments like when you look back at your childhood, what are the things that you remember from your parents, right? It's not usually that huge, grand thing they did one time. It's like those little tiny things that they did that made you feel safe and secure. Right? And so I think that those are the things that matter the most.

Danielle Bettmann  57:50  

So so good. Yes, we need to hear that on repeat. And, and it matters. It does matter so much. It's the little things. That's  adorable. And it would be such a good memory for both of you guys. So thank you guys so much for your vulnerability for being able to take the time being able to share your first personal experience and be able to hold that space on the platform for all the families that you do. Really, really appreciate it. So needed. Thank you so much for joining us on Failing Motherhood.

Shannon Korza  58:21  

Thank you for having us.

Danielle Bettmann  58:30  

Thank you so much for tuning into this episode of Failing Motherhood. Your kids are so lucky to have you. If you loved this episode, take a screenshot right now and share it in your Instagram stories and tag me. If you're loving the podcast, be sure that you've subscribed and leave a review so we can help more moms know they're not alone if they feel like they're failing motherhood on a daily basis. And if you're ready to transform your relationship with your strong willed child, and invest in the support you need to make it happen -schedule your free consultation using the link in the show notes. I can't wait to meet you. Thanks for coming on this journey with me. I believe in you, and I'm cheering you on.