Raising Gifted & Twice-Exceptional (2e) Kids with Erin Vanek

Are you in the midst of the chaotic beautiful hard journey that is raising a gifted child at your house?  Can you know "for sure" if your child is gifted?

My guest today, Erin Vanek has spent well over a decade supporting gifted students with a Master's in Education and an endorsement in gifted education. She's also the founder of The Gifted Perspective, offering workshops, printable resources, and activities, and fostering a strong social media community. At home, she navigates the challenge of raising two twice-exceptional (2e) learners of her own.

In today’s episode, Erin shared how she beat herself up for struggling to support her oldest in ways she could with her students, and sharing what led to answers that allowed him to thrive, setting off a cascade of realizations within her family.

She defined twice-exceptional kids and giftedness as a whole, including the common traits, complexities, assets, and struggles as well as the most fascinating concept- asynchronous development - insight sure to set off lightbulbs and peace of mind in many listening parents.

IN THIS EPISODE, WE COVERED...

• Why gifted kids make seemingly simple + “careless” mistakes
• The "waiting for the other shoe to drop”  feeling parents like Erin so commonly feel when getting updates from school staff knowing there are behaviors to discuss
• A key life skill to model with your gifted child while they’re still young

DON'T MISS-

• The parenting changes you can make now to prevent your child from burning out down the road

// CONNECT WITH ERIN VANEK //
Website: www.thegiftedperspective.com
Instagram: @the.gifted.perspective

Transcript

Erin Vanek  0:00  
I think what really transformed me as a mom was understanding that he's not a bad kid. That was my biggest - when I was at the lowest point, and really feeling like I was failing. I think it was because I felt like I was failing him. Everyone was seeing him as the behavior kid, the problem kid, the bad kid, and I knew as his mom that he wasn't that. He was a good kid, but it's hard to keep telling people that, like, oh, I know he did this, but trust me, he's good. Like, just trust me. So kind of having just this extra knowledge and extra research to be able to show some of this stuff, it really is in his brain, like he's not trying to be bad. He's not trying to be like malicious, and so that really kind of flipped a switch for me.

Danielle Bettmann  0:56  
Ever feel like you suck at this job? Motherhood, I mean. Have too much anxiety and not enough patience? Too much yelling, not enough play? There's no manual, no village, no guarantees. The stakes are high. We want so badly to get it right, but this is survival mode. We're just trying to make it to bedtime. So if you're full of mom guilt, your temper scares you, you feel like you're screwing everything up, and you're afraid to admit any of those things out loud. This podcast is for you. This is Failing Motherhood. I'm Danielle Bettmann, and each week we'll chat with a mom ready to be real, sharing her insecurities, her fears, her failures, and her wins. We do not have it all figured out. That's not the goal. The goal is to remind you you are the mom your kids need. They need what you have. You are good enough, and you're not alone. I hope you pop in earbuds, somehow sneak away, and get ready to hear some hope from the trenches. You belong here, friend, we're so glad you're here.

Danielle Bettmann  2:11  
Hey, it's Danielle. Are you in the midst of the chaotic, beautiful, and hard journey that is raising a gifted child? If you're not sure, it kind of seems like all parents think their kids are smart. So how can you know for sure your child is gifted? Or can you know for sure? Either way, this episode is for you. 

Danielle Bettmann  2:33  
My guest today has a Master's in Education and an Endorsement in Gifted Education. Erin Vanek has spent well over a decade supporting gifted students. That support has also transferred to her personal life as she navigates the challenge of raising twice-exceptional learners. Erin is the founder of The Gifted Perspective, a company driven by her passion for advocating for gifted individuals and challenging the social stigma that often surrounds giftedness. Through her business, Erin has reached 1000s of people, offering workshops, printable resources, and activities and fostering a strong social media community. In today's episode, Erin and I dive right into her story, where she was beating herself up for struggling to support her oldest in ways that seemed to be easy for her with her students and sharing what led to the answers that allowed him to thrive, setting off a cascade of realizations within her family. She defined twice-exceptional kids and giftedness as a whole, including the common traits, complexities, assets, and struggles, as well as the most fascinating concept, asynchronous development with insight sure to set off light bulbs and peace of mind in many parents. We wrapped up our conversation as Erin shared the parenting approaches she implemented at home, as well as the path she believes helps prevent burnout down the road. So here is my conversation with Erin.

Danielle Bettmann  4:10  
Welcome to Failing Motherhood. My name is Danielle Bettmann, and on today's episode, I am joined by Erin Vanek. Erin, thank you so much for being here. I know you are fitting me in on top of everything else you've done today, and I so appreciate that.

Erin Vanek  4:24  
Thank you so much for having me. I'm excited to have this conversation.

Danielle Bettmann  4:28  
Of course. Now there's so much that we could talk about, but I want to start at the top. So to introduce yourself to my listeners a little bit more, who are you, and who's in your family?

Erin Vanek  4:39  
So, I'm Erin Vanek. I'm a full-time teacher of gifted education. In my family, I have my husband as well as three kids: a nine-year-old, a six-year-old, and a four-year-old, so two boys, and then my youngest is a girl.

Danielle Bettmann  4:56  
Okay and have you ever felt like you were failing motherhood? 

Erin Vanek  5:00  
Yes, yes, absolutely.

Danielle Bettmann  5:04  
Welcome to the club.

Erin Vanek  5:09  
This is probably how it goes for a lot of people, but it was my oldest, kind of the first go around. I had postpartum anxiety. So when he was a child, like a baby, I struggled a lot just questioning everything, which, again, you know, is kind of par for the course, especially with your oldest. But when I really started to question, like, is there something wrong with me? Am I doing something wrong? I would say, that when he was starting to get into, like, preschool and grade school, he really had challenges with behavior and just regulating himself, and so that would result in punishments and consequences and conferences. I just remember whenever I was picking him up from school, from daycare, or whatever, just always having this pit in my stomach like, oh, no, what are they gonna tell me now? What will he have done? And what kind of compounded the fact, at least for me, is that, again, I am a teacher and a teacher of gifted kids who neurologically they have some of these emotional regulation pieces. So as a teacher, I would be implementing all of these strategies for my students, and yet I would come home and be like, how can I do all this for these other kids, but I can't help my kid? I was really feeling like I was doing something wrong and I was letting him down. I think, the lowest point, probably around first and second grade, was when I really felt like I wasn't doing this thing right, like I don't know why everyone else seems to have figured out how to be a mom, but I just can't do it. 

Danielle Bettmann  7:00  
Yeah, how discouraging. I see that so often when parents who come into parenting from the education field, from the therapy field, from the medical field, have an extra layer of expectations of themselves and pressure feels like to have it figured out and to be able to do what you do for other people's kids with your own and what a failure if you can't. I felt that. I see that so often in so many of my clients, and it's so common yet it's not something that we feel is really talked about, because otherwise, you would find each other a lot sooner. So talk us through that school year, and when you feel like you finally got answers. 

Erin Vanek  7:47  
Yeah, absolutely. I guess, another factor on top of it - so he's a student at the school where I am a teacher. And so there was also kind of this added layer, like, looking back now, I see it was totally this pressure I was putting on myself, like there was no external but I was imagining that kind of everyone around me was just judging me, and I felt like I was letting you know, everybody down. So in second grade, when he was having, like, just a lot of these behavior issues, I think where we really faced the struggle was that academically, he was fine. It was just like this emotional regulation and behavior. So I had reached out to his pediatrician, because I just had like, a gut feeling, like, I know we talk about, like, moms having like, this instinct, but it's so true, I just had this feeling like there's something, something is going on deeper. I did talk to my pediatrician, and she was like, well, you know, there's no struggles academically, so it's not like he's struggling to learn or anything like that. So, you know, he's just a boy. I heard that a ton, all the time. He'll grow out of it. But again, I just had this feeling kind of like nagging at me, like, no, there is something there. So I talked to his teacher a lot, and she was fabulous and gave me a lot of support and validation, I think, which is what I needed. Honestly, I think the way she had the biggest impact was probably not even for my son, but for me. I remember her telling me, like, Erin, you are a great mom. You're doing a great job. I just got tears in my eyes, like I really needed to hear that from an objective source, but she's the one who helped, you know, conversations with her, and again, just this feeling myself. So we kind of looked into how to get him a neuro-psych evaluation, just to figure out what was going on. He was diagnosed with ADHD. So this is the end of second grade, and I think that was a game changer for us and in our family.

Danielle Bettmann  10:06  
Okay, so you got that first diagnosis, and that felt like a game changer. Tell me more about, like, what that seemed to put into place in the whole puzzle you were trying to figure out.

Erin Vanek  10:17  
Well, a huge part again, coming from like this teacher background, you know, I had students with ADHD, and we learn about it very surface level. So I think in my head, it was always the stereotype that you think of, you know, a kid kind of like bouncing off the walls and always being distracted, and like struggling in school, all of that combined. So it was not even on my radar, actually, for my son. So when we heard that, it caused me to just kind of go down the rabbit hole, like unpacking this, and when I learned just the like neurological impacts of it and how it far-reaching, like the emotional regulation and all of that, it actually led for myself to follow up. I was then late diagnosed ADHD, because as I'm looking at everything with my son, I'm like, oh my gosh. Like, that's why I do that. Like, this is a coping strategy. This was just eye-opening. I think what transformed me as a mom was understanding that, he's not a bad kid. That was when I was at the lowest point, and really feeling like I was failing. I think it was because I felt like I was failing him. Everyone was seeing him as the behavior kid, the problem kid, the bad kid. I knew as his mom that he wasn't, that he was a good kid, but it's hard to keep telling people that, like, oh, I know he did this, but trust me, he's good. Like, just trust me. So kind of having just this extra knowledge and extra research to be able to show some of this stuff really is in his brain, like he's not trying to be bad. He's not trying to be malicious. So that really kind of flipped a switch for me.

Danielle Bettmann  12:17  
Oh, that's so powerful, because then you can actually feel like you can truly say he's not giving us a hard time. He's having a hard time with actual proof, or like, you know, feeling like you're not just when you advocate for him, that you're also trying to like excuse or defend his behavior and his problems in school. I was just talking to a client earlier today about how awkward it feels to, you know, get the call from school and feel like you're trying to back them up while at the same time feeling like you don't have all the information and like, just wallowing there in that messy middle of like, how do I support my kid? I know they shouldn't be doing what they're doing, but at the same time, more punishments, more like making things extra tenuous at home doesn't feel like it's helping, or doesn't feel like the answer either.

Erin Vanek  13:13  
Yeah, that is so hard. 100% it's a hard spot to be in as a mom, because there's just so much questioning, I feel like as a mom. I mean, every second you know, you're wondering, is this the right thing? Should I be doing this instead? And then again, you're wondering, am I being too lenient? But my gut is telling me I'm not, but kind of society is telling me I am, being able to wade through that mess is hard.

Danielle Bettmann  13:43  
So many shoulds for everybody, for them, teacher, oh, so hard. Okay, so what happened next?

Erin Vanek  13:52  
So after the diagnosis, my husband and I, talked a lot, and we ended up choosing the medication route, which was the best choice for our family and our son, and I mean it, it was wild, just how much that helped. I know you can't just, like, give someone a medication, and everything's magically changed. I think what coupled with us having this new realization was understanding just ways that we could change how we were approaching him, instead of always approaching him negatively. Like, why did you do this? Why did you do that? We did a lot of, like, front loading, so we would anticipate, oh, this is going to give him a hard time. Like, we know when something's off the routine. He would struggle with that, and he would have a big meltdown. As a mom, like, even if it was something positive, like, oh, we're gonna go out for ice cream, he would get frustrated. I would get frustrated, like, no, this is a good thing. You should be excited that we're surprising you. Again, we kind of learned, in his brain, that he has these expectations. So just being able to, I guess, come to his terms, instead of having these expectations of how he should react. So that was huge. I still remember, in third grade, we had our parent-teacher conference, and again, up until that point, every single communication with a teacher, they were very kind about it, they'd be like, oh, you know, we love your child. This is happening, there's always, like, a waiting for the shooter. So I'm sitting there in third grade, and yeah, my stomach's kind of like, what are they gonna say? What are they gonna say? They're like, oh, you know he's doing great. We love having him. I kind of looked at them and I'm like, Okay, and what? They were like, no, that's it. I got tears in my eyes, because, like, this is the first time - and I remember telling my husband on the drive home - I'm like, so this is what it's like. This is what other parents have experienced, just not having that impending dread and that weight. It was a big moment.

Danielle Bettmann  16:16  
Yeah, oh my gosh. What a relief. How exciting. The moment where it feels like all of the late nights and the researching and the lengths that you went to are starting to tangibly pay off. And yes, you feel better, and he has to feel better. 

Erin Vanek  16:36  
Yeah, I know we talked a while like, are we going to talk to him about this, and I believe a lot in giving kids the knowledge about their brain. So we did kind of sit down, and we were talking about, you know, you have ADHD, and I was like, I have it as well. And talking about just the pros and cons of it, it was interesting, because my middle child ended up getting diagnosed with ADHD earlier because now that we had been through the process, we kind of knew it. So when he got diagnosed, we were talking to him about it, and I remember telling him, like, oh it's a superpower. My older son shouts from the other room. He's like, it's not a superpower. Sometimes it's really bad. My instinct as a mom was to be like, hey, quiet, I'm talking to your little brother. Like, butt out of this conversation. But then I kind of sat for a second and was like, you know what, like, he's right. So I pulled them all together, the two of them and me. I'm like, you know what, you're right. Like, there are some really cool things about this, and there are some really hard things, and it'sjust how your brain is, and we're gonna figure it out together.

Danielle Bettmann  17:46  
I love that. It's just so nuanced. It's a very hard thing to understand. But they do need those words at their age, because otherwise, what other explanation is there? If I can't, you know, wrap my mind around ADHD, then I'm just left to kind of my assumptions or conclusions based on all this feedback I'm getting, which is negative, and that doesn't lead me anywhere good, right? Kids need those answers, and I think that's really helpful and tangible, especially when you can relate to each other in that way. So you said that they are also twice exceptional. Is that correct? 

Erin Vanek  18:28  
Yes. 

Danielle Bettmann  18:29  
Okay, so tell us more about what that means.

Erin Vanek  18:31  
So twice exceptional is just the term for if you are gifted. So I feel like there's sometimes this expectation that if you are gifted, that's kind of based on achievement like you get all A's and you have no other struggles. It's really been kind of recent that people are acknowledging like, oh, you could be gifted and have ADHD, gifted and autistic, gifted and dyslexic, like gifted and. So twice exceptional just means where the term comes from. There are two ways that you are an exception to the norm. So, like in their case, cognitively, and then with ADHD, so kind of two ways they're different from a neurotypical brain.

Danielle Bettmann  19:17  
Give us that foundation as well, of kind of just the definition of gifted.

Erin Vanek  19:22  
So that is a loaded question because there are many, many different definitions. And what's frustrating, at least for somebody in my position, where I'm a Gifted Education Specialist and Advocate for Giftedness, is that, especially in the United States, there's not like a federal mandate on giftedness. So it's not a diagnosis, right? It's an identification, which means it's not like you can look in the DSM or the little manual, and see like, this is what is gifted so there are different definitions. The one that I like and feel like speaks best to kind of the nature of giftedness is that it is the ability to make connections very efficiently. So gifted brains can kind of make these synaptic connections in their brain, these cognitive connections quickly. In doing that, it also means that different parts of their brain are also connecting on an intense level, which can mean emotional parts are very intense, or sensory needs are very intense. So kind of this idea of intensity and efficiency, so being really quick and being really intense.

Danielle Bettmann  20:40  
Ok, then is there an academic component?

Erin Vanek  20:44  
Yeah, so most schools are going to identify giftedness with an IQ test, like as part of the component, and that's going to be like your cognitive kind of baseline. But then there are different types of giftedness. So you could be kind of cognitively gifted, and then you could also be gifted in a specific subject area. So you could be gifted in math, gifted in reading, gifted in science, and that's going to be kind of that academic component. Where kind of that overlap is, is a lot of times as these brains are super efficient at making connections, they're able to learn stuff at a much faster rate. So people see, oh, this kid is like, picking up this concept so quickly. So that's kind of where we start to see that merging of like, that cognitive and an academic piece.

Danielle Bettmann  21:35  
Okay and tell me more about like, how you realize that your family also identified with that.

Erin Vanek  21:44  
I grew up gifted and went through the gifted program.

Danielle Bettmann  21:49  
And has that changed? Like? Out of curiosity, I was in the gifted program in my elementary however long that was 20 years ago. Is it the same? Or does it look a lot different?

Erin Vanek  22:01  
Now, I feel like it looks a lot different. But okay, again, going back to the idea, at least in the United States, that there's no federal mandate, it can look different from school district to school district and there's no law that even says a school has to provide services. So, you know, I get a lot of people reaching out to me like, my school doesn't offer services. What do I do with my kid? But I do feel like the setup has changed, at least in like, the bubble that I'm in. I think when I was in the program, it was very much just kind of like based on enrichment. So just the idea of, like, one day a week, we'd go to this classroom and we would just learn something totally random, and it was fun but that was kind of the extent of it. I feel like now there's trying to be more of a correlation to building off of what is happening in the general education classroom, kind of showing this continuation of knowledge. But again, it's hard to say, because it can look different.

Danielle Bettmann  23:02  
You were saying how your family found itself there.

Erin Vanek  23:13  
So, I guess giftedness has kind of always been a part of my world. Like I said, I went through the program, and I kind of went through it again as a girl in the early 90s, going through the gifted program. I think this partly goes into why I was never diagnosed with ADHD, I learned how to just be very compliant. I would just do what I had to do, and I was quiet, and just a lot of expectations kind of put on myself, and the perfectionism kind of all of that was what I went through. So when I went into education, I knew I wanted to teach kids like me to kind of give them space so they could actually be themselves and breathe and not always feel just held to this, this ideal, this box that they had to fit in. 

Danielle Bettmann  24:07  
That's beautiful. 

Erin Vanek  24:09  
Yeah. So having that kind of passion again was just always in my in my mind. In our school district, we do like whole grade screeners for giftedness, so that's how my oldest was identified. So I didn't like doing a private evaluation. I just kind of waited at our school district for it to come kind of organically with my middle son. I did do a referral when he was in kindergarten, and one of the signs that really stuck out to me was his spontaneous reading, which is what I call just these gifted kids that can just kind of pick up a book and just start reading out of nowhere. Again, I would get a lot of people that would say like, oh, well, you're a teacher. You must teach him how to read. I would say, no, like, he's my middle child. I'm really not teaching him how to read. I wish I was, but I didn't even know he could read until one day, like, he started reading on a menu, and I actually turned to my husband, like, oh, he can read. When did that happen? So just the curiosity, the connections again, that he could make. So that's what kind of clued me in like something is going on in his brain,

Danielle Bettmann  25:24  
What other symptoms are typical of, like your students, or just kind of in general, for gifted kids?

Erin Vanek  25:33  
So I forget who originally said this, but to meet one gifted kid is to meet one gifted kid, and I think the fact that there are so many different ways that like their giftedness presents. Now some of the kind of overarching things that I would say we look for, especially maybe like in younger kids, again, that spontaneous knowledge, so just being able to somehow have acquired concepts, whether they're math concepts or reading concepts, some of those fundamental skills, they just seem to absorb it without being directly taught this intense curiosity. So I know like, kind of going above and beyond the just always asking why. But also like connecting ideas and so they might remember, like, a couple of weeks ago you said this. Is that why this is and you're like, oh my gosh, I did say that. I didn't even remember. So they're kind of always making connections and asking questions. A strong memory has been shown and a really strong vocabulary have been shown in studies of many like young, gifted children.

Danielle Bettmann  26:45  
I love that quote because you really do want to not put anybody into a box or oversimplify what this is, because it is so individualized and looks different on every kid, especially at different ages and different interest levels and, and all of that. But thank you for kind of being able to start to illustrate and have that come to life.

Danielle Bettmann  27:15  
Here's the deal, if your child is sensitive and smart yet loses it, is clingy or aggressive with you at home, they can go zero to 60 over the smallest things, like when they just don't get their way, nothing changes their mind and they can't seem to get over it. You know what you're doing isn't working, and siblings are starting to suffer. You could go to therapy yourself and take your child to therapy follow all the experts ask your family and friends for advice, take a course set up a calm down corner, and read all the parenting books and still feel defeated. It's time. It's time to learn the missing pieces of invaluable insight about their temperament that unlocks compassion in you and an understanding of how to work with the way they're wired. It's time to communicate in new ways, like a hostage negotiator, to get through to them and cultivate cooperation with confidence, and it's time to eliminate the behaviors that are working to gain control and attention at their root rather than playing Whack A Mole. Calm and Confident the Master Class is for you. There you will master the kind and firm approach your strong-willed child needs without crushing their spirit or walking on eggshells. In this free training, I share the four critical kind and firm scripts that unlock cooperation in every situation, how to eliminate behaviors at their root, and the path to solidifying the open and honest relationship that you want to have with your child down the road. So go to parentingwholeheartedly.com/confident to access this exclusive on-demand, training immediately. That's parentingwholeheartedly.com/confident, that link will be in the show notes.

Danielle Bettmann  29:16  
Are there particular strengths and ways that giftedness presents in the world that can be huge assets and inversely, some struggles that come with that?

Erin Vanek  29:28  
Yeah, so I think one of the greatest assets of giftedness is, again, efficiency and learning. Gifted brains can just hear a concept and can just take it in and run with it. There are no gifted services. You hear about students getting bored in the classroom, and sometimes that's when actually behaviors come. I've seen a lot of students that were quote, unquote behavior cases, really, they were gifted kids that weren't getting challenged, and so they were bored because they could pick up a concept after one time, when the teacher had to keep reviewing it for the rest of their peers, right? So I think that efficiency and learning are huge. I think the creativity is a huge component. So gifted brains tend to be really great with divergent thinking. So the idea is that you can come up with multiple solutions or multiple ideas from one problem. That's a huge asset, the curiosity, the sense of justice. So gifted kids often have a really, really intense sense of justice, like they want rules, they want to follow the rules, and they want to understand why the rules are there. But I think all of these could also kind of be turned like that sense of justice. I have some gifted kids who will be argumentative with their teachers, right? And their teachers are like they are arguing with me because they don't think this is fair. So again, they get so stuck in kind of this black-or-white thinking that sometimes it's hard for them to understand the areas of gray. I think another struggle with giftedness is perfectionism, which has a huge correlation. You know, I'll hear from parents that I swear at home, we don't say anything about grades like we're not pushing that. But somehow, so and so is still like obsessing over grades, and still has this perfectionism. I think some of that is just neurologically based, like it's just innate, even if you are not verbally saying something, gifted kids are very perceptive. They're picking up all the expectations and kind of all the cues from around them, and so that carries a lot of weight. Gifted kids can also struggle a lot with, executive functioning, skills organization, and time management, especially going along with that, like love of learning. They might be immersed in a project, and maybe at school, you're like, okay, we have to wrap it up and move on to the next thing. They're like, no, I am still down this rabbit hole, I don't plan on leaving anytime soon. So you kind of have to find that balance between their love of learning and, you know, we have to keep moving through things.

Danielle Bettmann  32:23  
Absolutely. I was looking at your Instagram a couple of days ago, and you were using paper plates to kind of illustrate some of the neurological like, what happens with information, and parents are wondering why it can sometimes be challenging for gifted kids to do very simple things, or things that aren't requiring a whole lot of thought, or innocent little mistakes happen, but yet they can, you know, grasp these very complex things. So I was wondering, would it be true in any way to say that hard concepts are grasped easily and easy concepts are harder? Or how would you kind of describe that? 

Erin Vanek  33:11  
Yeah, I would say that, I think. It was the reason I actually went down that research rabbit hole. I was just looking at some of my students who were making, just like silly mistakes in writing, I was like, why is this happening? Like they are gifted, and they're even gifted in the academic area of reading like this should be their bread and butter. What is what's going on here? So I kind of dove into the science, and it was surprising. So when a task has high cognitive demand, so it's demanding a lot from you, your brain can hold on to more details and kind of connect those details more smoothly. When it's not as cognitively demanding, your brain has fewer details, and it's a little bit messier as it makes these connections. That's kind of across the board, even beyond giftedness. But I think that especially comes into play with these gifted brains when they're not being challenged. The brain's not used, not firing, I guess, at 100% and so it is easier to have this kind of laxes and silly mistakes and grammar errors and all that kind of stuff, and then people wonder, but they're gifted, they should get this like, this is an easy thing.

Danielle Bettmann  34:28  
Yeah, and I feel like it's one that I find gifted adults talk about, because they got a lot of feedback growing up saying things like, oh, you're not living up to your potential, or you're being lazy and you're being careless and like, you need to apply yourself. So I would love to, if you've been in like, the social media communities of like people that identify as like, the burnt out gifted kid, what contributes to that, and how do prevent some of that burnout, if we're raising gifted kids?

Erin Vanek  35:02  
Yeah, I mean, the burnout is real, like that is such a real feeling and a valid feeling. I think you're right. It's from always feeling like you need to live up to your potential, which translates to you can't make any silly mistakes. It ties into that perfectionism.

Danielle Bettmann  35:20  
Your worth is your output, or, like, there's something tied to it.

Erin Vanek  35:24  
Yeah, absolutely. Again, that's really what fueled me to even go into gifted education, because I felt some of that and it wasn't good. I'm like, I want to, if I could change this for a handful of students like, that'll be great. So I think how we work on it is really what we say, like, I really am cognizant to not say, living up to your potential. I think that's kind of a tricky phrase because I don't know when you think about it as an adult, like, we don't always choose, like, a career that's necessarily what we are best at. We choose something that we're interested in, or maybe our hobby becomes our passion. Like, there's just so many different pathways to take. Also, I really like teaching about failing and the idea of, like, frustration tolerance, I model it a lot. I am okay telling my students that I don't know something, and you know how to find answers and just how to sit with - yeah, this is really hard, and it feels really uncomfortable, and we could still be in this place and get through it. I think that was one skill that I also kind of lacked growing up, how to be okay with failing. Why when I was a mom and felt like I was failing, I was like, in a spa. I'm like, this is new, and I don't like this, and it just didn't feel right.

Danielle Bettmann  36:52  
Talk about how to face that head-on. That's real. I mean, that's kind of universal for everybody, but I think even more when you are set up and wired with that innate perfectionism, and then have all of that feedback on top of it, it's very hard and very uncomfortable, and the more that we can kind of separate the identity and the worth and the output from a problem to solve or a mistake, or an opportunity to learn, and how universal that is in the process of becoming successful, can prevent some burnout down the road, and that would be well worth that. That intention for sure.

Erin Vanek  37:31  
I would say, one thing that I push with my students, is that I will get a lot of them that make a mistake, or get something wrong on a test, and they'll ask me, am I still gifted? I think that's just your point. We have to disconnect the idea that giftedness is just based on achievement. You are not gifted because you got straight A's. You're gifted because that's how your brain is, and you're going to struggle along the way. I really try to instill in my kids that, yeah, you can miss a question, you can fail a test, and your brain is still your brain like your brain hasn't changed. I think that's just really important, like you said, disconnecting giftedness from sole achievement. 

Danielle Bettmann  37:31  
Yeah, how powerful. No, that's gonna be so reassuring for those poor kids. They already are so hard on themselves. I know that the topic that I would love for you to talk a little bit more about, is asynchronous development. Go ahead and give us the lowdown.

Erin Vanek  38:38  
All right, so this is something I think is so fascinating. It's something when - I feel like I explain it to parents, they really have these aha moments like, oh my gosh, you're right. So with the gift of the brain, it's really efficient cognitively. So you might have a kid, let's say a seven-year-old kid, and cognitively, they are making connections and working at the speed of a 12-year-old. However, just because their brain are, cognitively at that level, they don't develop holistically. So it's not like your brain is developing in every area at the same pace. So they might be actually emotionally at the age of a five-year-old, and then maybe still the like interest level, they're at a seven-year-old. So you have this child who you know you're having, like, this intense conversation about climate change and global warming, and then all of a sudden they just erupt into a tantrum because they can't tie their shoe. You're like, what is happening? A lot of times for parents, they struggle because they're like, but you're gifted, like, I was just able to have this coherent conversation. I know you understand the logic of it. Why can't you control this? And they honestly, can't. They're not developed in that way. I think that was a light bulb moment for me as well, especially with my middle child, understanding that yes, cognitively, he might be here, but I still have to understand that emotionally, he's in a different space. So just because in my brain, I think he should understand what I'm saying and why, you know this consequence is there, I just have to support him wherever.

Danielle Bettmann  40:18  
Yeah, oh, so challenging and so common. I feel like we do that even with like, taller kids, right? The taller they are, the higher the bar, because we hold our expectations appropriately, and that's of course not true. They are the same, you know, development, if not different stages as their shorter peers. So is there anything that parents need to do differently about that, or do they just need to hold space for that in the meantime?

Erin Vanek  40:45  
I think having the awareness is huge, and again, kind of backing off some of those expectations. Like, I'll get a parent who will say, you know, my child is gifted in reading. I want them to read Shakespeare or something. I'm like, yeah, but they are still at the emotional development of a seven-year-old like they're not going to be interested in that. They're interested in the graphic novels that their friends are reading, and that is okay.  I think, letting parents know, like, if they are not always at the top again, like that achievement, their brain is still growing and it's still developing, and they're going to be okay.

Danielle Bettmann  41:20  
They don't always have to be given the things at like, the highest level of their abilities.

Erin Vanek  41:28  
Yeah, they can just give them space to be a kid sometimes. 

Danielle Bettmann  41:32  
Yeah, and for parents that have a kiddo that they have identified as gifted, but they don't necessarily have services in their district or their school, are there things that you suggest that they can supplement at home? Or what is kind of their best course of action?

Erin Vanek  41:53  
I would say, lean into your child's interests, and you might find especially with gifted kids, it seems like as soon as you book all the tickets to visit the exhibits and buy all the books, they're suddenly on to the next thing. Use library books, use free museums, and just take advantage of all that. When they're interested in something, give them all of those resources they can just soak it up. Their brain is like a sponge, and they'll want to learn all that. Also, lots of like spatial puzzles, critical thinking puzzles, and logic. So maybe stuff that's not necessarily steeped in like academics, but just allowing them to think differently can go a long way.

Danielle Bettmann  42:38  
Love that, so practical. So anything else that you always kind of desperately want parents of gifted kids to understand or hear?

Erin Vanek  42:47  
Now, I think just the biggest thing is it is okay if these kids struggle, that's actually it's a good thing if they're struggling because that means we're teaching them the skill now. So I think parents feel like, again, my kids are gifted. They shouldn't get a B, or they shouldn't ask questions about this, or whatever. It's okay and they're gonna have areas of struggle and just help them through that and enjoy the ride.

Danielle Bettmann  43:15  
It's the roller coaster. Yeah, well said, because we can be so uncomfortable with that. That can be very, very hard to watch.

Erin Vanek  43:29  
I think sometimes parents feel like it reflects on them, you know, well, my kid is gifted, and he's not doing well. I must be dropping the ball somewhere. I am in the way of my kid reaching their potential, and so again, reframing that, that they don't have to be reaching their potential. They just need to be reaching and growing, and that's okay.

Danielle Bettmann  43:54  
Yeah, yeah, it's the process, not necessarily the product. Is there anything that you changed in your parenting personally that seemed to make a big difference? I know you were talking about how you could, just, like, start to shift your approaches overall.

Erin Vanek  44:09  
Yeah, trying again not to approach everything negatively was a huge thing. So not that blame, like, why did you do this? But being more kind of direct. Like, okay, this is what happened. Like, this was the behavior. Let's talk about where we can go from here. I realized, like, just rehashing it was not helpful. Oftentimes, my son didn't really know why, and then he was frustrated with himself. The other thing I feel like, if you walk into my household, it's like an explosion of emotional regulation. I'm very big on building emotional intelligence with my kids, so I understand, again, as my gifted kids, they have these really intense emotions. So I thought, like, I want to kind of capitalize on their ability to take in language and vocabulary and give them the words to actually express what they're feeling. So we got into the nitty gritty of it. So instead of just saying I'm mad, they can say well, I'm frustrated, I'm anxious, I'm lonely, and I feel like giving them those tools made them feel a little bit more in control and empowered, and helped me honestly understand what they were going through.

Danielle Bettmann  45:26  
Well, well said, definitely the the angle that I would be putting listeners towards as well. So we're super aligned on that, and I love to be able to hear you know, your triumphs in those areas because it does really support your kids where they need that help most, in the ways that are most effective for them, where you're not just both, you know, well-intentioned, but hitting heads and causing power struggles. So where can listeners connect with your work if they want to hear more and then share with them what resources you offer?

Erin Vanek  46:02  
So I have a social media account on Instagram. It's @the.gifted.perspective, and then on my website is where you will find all of the like, I create webinars, kind of targeting specific areas of giftedness that parents often struggle with, and printable resources and just enrichment activities, and that is thegiftedperspective.com so both of those spots would be ways that you can kind of get in touch and get more resources and knowledge.

Danielle Bettmann  46:34  
Perfect. I'll have those linked in the show notes, so those will be easy to grab from here. So as we wrap up, I have to ask you the question I ask every guest that comes on, which is, how are you the mom your kids need?

Erin Vanek  46:46  
I think I'm the mom my kids need because I modeled my failures, and so I let them know it's okay like we're all gonna stumble, we're all gonna make mistakes. You know, even when I have trouble regulating my emotions, I will talk them through them. So, yeah, I'm feeling really angry I did this. This was a big reaction, and just being very open. I think that's what my kids need. They need to be able to see it in the world.

Danielle Bettmann  47:20  
Yes, yes. That's so like full circle coming off of, you know, starting the episode, talking about all the feelings of failure, and, you know, starting motherhood really rocky, and then being able to find that confidence. By the end, it's still never going to be cupcakes, rainbows, and, you know, no tears, but knowing that you're on the right track, knowing that you have that insight that really unlocks understanding that your kid is everything. I think there are so many overlaps in the Venn diagram between the families that are going to really find your resources helpful and the families that listen to Failing Motherhood. So thank you so much for your time and your expertise and for joining us today.

Erin Vanek  48:03  
Oh, thank you so much. This was such a wonderful conversation.

Erin Vanek  48:06  
Of course. 

Danielle Bettmann  48:12  
Thank you so much for tuning into this episode of Failing Motherhood. Your kids are so lucky to have you. If you loved this episode, take a screenshot right now share it in your Instagram stories and tag me. If you love the podcast, be sure that you've subscribed and leave a review so we can help more moms know they are not alone if they feel like they're failing motherhood daily. If you're ready to transform your relationship with your strong-willed child, and invest in the support you need to make it happen - schedule your free consultation using the link in the show notes. I can't wait to meet you. Thanks for coming on this journey with me. I believe in you and I'm cheering you on.