174. Kids are Not Content with Sarah Adams (@Mom.Uncharted)

What’s wrong with sharing pictures on Facebook so grandparents can see the kids?

As parents in 2024, we’re in uncharted waters trying to navigate our own internet use, let alone our kids’.

My guest today, Sarah Adams, is an online safety advocate and expert, exploring the state of parental public oversharing, child exploitation and minor security on social media.

While diving into the harsh realities of the Internet in 2024, she defines some key terms we should know, the impact of the pandemic, and whether private accounts are really private.

IN THIS EPISODE, WE COVERED...

• Beyond the digital footprint - 5 risks to consider when sharing online
• Content she considers to be exploitative and what to do about it
• Alternatives ways to stay in touch
• How to talk to your kids about YouTube channels you can’t support

DON'T MISS-

• Questions to ask yourself before hitting POST

// CONNECT WITH SARAH ADAMS//
Website: www.kidsarenotcontent.com
Instagram: @‌mom.uncharted
TikTok: @‌mom.uncharted 

I believe in you + I'm cheering you on.
Come say hi!  I'm @‌parent_wholeheartedly on Insta.
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Don't forget to leave a rating or review! Thank you!

Transcript

Sarah Adams  0:00  
You have to ask yourself, why am I posting this? Once parents realize that most of their posts is for their benefit and not necessarily for their kid's benefit, like, you know, we're getting the dopamine hit too when we share a cute photo of our kid and people like it and comment, 'how sweet', and stuff like that. That's all back on us. It's not benefiting your child in any capacity, right? So I think parents really need to look internally as to why I feel the need to post this, share this, and be filming my child at the park on stories and things like that. Is this information private? Does this need to be shared with aunts, uncles, cousins, or coworkers? Is there any chance that they would not want this shared or be embarrassed by this later in life?

Danielle Bettmann  1:00  
Ever feel like you suck at this job? Motherhood, I mean. Have too much anxiety and not enough patience? Too much yelling, not enough play? There's no manual, no village, no guarantees. The stakes are high. We want so badly to get it right, but this is survival mode. We're just trying to make it to bedtime. So if you're full of mom guilt, your temper scares you, you feel like you're screwing everything up, and you're afraid to admit any of those things out loud. This podcast is for you. This is Failing Motherhood. I'm Danielle Bettmann, and each week we'll chat with a mom ready to be real, showing her insecurities, her fears, her failures, and her wins. We do not have it all figured out. That's not the goal. The goal is to remind you, that you are the mom your kids need. They need what you have. You are good enough, and you're not alone. I hope you pop in earbuds, somehow sneak away, and get ready to hear some hope from the trenches. You belong here, friend, we're so glad you're here.

Danielle Bettmann  2:07  
Hey, it's Danielle, it's 2024. As parents, we are in uncharted waters, trying to navigate our internet use still, let alone our kids. While we know to be vigilant in some areas, we may not be considering the implications of other seemingly harmless ways we're using the internet, like posting pictures and videos of our kids to social media without our kids' consent, let alone the lack of privacy that children are born into that become content for influencers, vloggers and reality TV stars. My guest today, Sarah Adams is an online safety advocate and expert exploring the state of parental public oversharing child exploitation and minor security on social media. Her work creating awareness and critical thought on these important issues has been featured in prominent media organizations around the globe, including CNN, Fox News, Bloomberg, ABC, Newsweek, and more. We start off our conversation by framing it around curiosity and information gathering, rather than shame or judgment. She defines some key terms we should know, the impact of the pandemic, and whether private accounts are private. Together, we walk through the five risks to consider beyond just the digital footprint and privacy risks. After highlighting the extreme side of the spectrum, Sarah shares practical tips for the everyday parent, as well as questions to ask yourself before hitting the post. This quote of hers, I feel like sums it up, "Using children and their real lives as entertainment for strangers on the internet has somehow become normal, and I would like us all to consider a new normal, one that prioritizes a child's right to privacy, informed consent, critical thinking and safety online over a parent's desire for online fame." So let's dive in.

Danielle Bettmann  3:59  
Welcome to Failing Motherhood. My name is Danielle Bettmann, and on today's episode, I'm joined by Sarah Adams, aka Mom.Uncharted. Sarah, thank you so much for joining me today. 

Sarah Adams  4:16  
Yeah, thanks so much for having me. I really appreciate it. 

Danielle Bettmann  4:19  
Of course. I found you, I don't even know how long ago on TikTok, of all places, as I am chronically online these days, and I just aligned immediately and appreciated what you were sharing so much. I just felt like it was time to bring it to Failing Motherhood, because, of course, the internet is another place where we inevitably feel like we're failing as parents, by the day, by the hour. So will you just give a real quick intro of who you are to my audience? 

Sarah Adams  4:51  
Yeah, of course. So again, my name's Sarah. Online I go by Mom.Uncharted, and my platforms discuss the state of the parental public oversharing as it relates to, you know, myself, the everyday parent, as well as you know, Mom influencers and influencers, family vloggers, diving into also the child exploitation state of social media and just keeping our kids on safe and having general discussions about what we are all dealing with in these uncharted waters of parenting in the digital age. 

Danielle Bettmann  5:26  
I love the word uncharted because that's very much what it feels like, we have never been here before. 

Sarah Adams  5:34  
I named myself Mom.Uncharted for two reasons. I wasn't sure what I was doing online. I had never really had a social media presence before, or tried to, like, put myself out there and my thoughts and my opinions. So I wasn't exactly sure where I was going, but I knew these were subjects I did want to discuss. You know, there's no handbook to this. This is new for all of us, and I would like to think we're all doing the best we can, but it is truly uncharted waters. We don't know what the long-term consequences and ramifications of growing up in this digital world are or are, and so I thought just speaking and finding community, a sense of relatability amongst parents, and just having open communication that we can discuss these topics would be beneficial for probably all of us. 

Danielle Bettmann  6:28  
Absolutely. Yeah, it's not for lack of effort that the parents that follow me struggle. It is very much because they need more information to make better decisions, or they just want to have that insight because they've never parented a kid at the age that they have today before. So that unfamiliarity breeds a lot of insecurity, which then, you know, creates these complexes of anxiety that if you're feeling, it's because you are setting out with good intentions. So it is not at all to bring shame or judgment upon anybody for any previous decisions. It is purely to be able to help us feel well-educated and more confident as parents. So that's what I want to kind of frame this conversation around as we dive in, if you would help kind of paint the picture of in 2024, what's going on in the internet?

Sarah Adams  7:19  
Honestly, what isn't going on on the internet? Literally, anything you want, anything you desire can and will be found. It's just an interesting time to be alive, really, and to bear witness to what parents are putting out there, what young people are putting out there. What you know, podcasters are putting out there. It's a lot to navigate. And when we're talking about, like social media as parents, we're also talking about, like screen time. We're talking about gaming, we're talking about a lot of different things. And I think in 2024, a lot of people right now, especially with the release of Jonathan Haidt's book, The Anxious Generation, I think a lot of parents are feeling pretty anxious, pretty overwhelmed, pretty scared, and I think that's another reason why these conversations are important because I don't have the answers, but I can offer some thoughts and some opinions and some resources because I think what I would like listeners to know is I'm just the regular, average mom. You know, I don't come from a social media background or marketing or cyber security or psychology, or any of this. I'm just a consumer of social media. I became a mother in late 2017. I had my second child in 2020 and I'm just riding the wave alongside you, right? I had an interest in this topic, and so I thought I would share what I've seen and what I think, and maybe people relate to that.

Danielle Bettmann  9:04  
Yeah, absolutely, they do. I mean, clearly, you have a big following for a reason, because parents are looking for this information, and they do feel, I think, understood by you in a way that you come across to say this is new to me too, or just being able to have a curiosity, right? That kind of drives things.

Sarah Adams  9:24  
I recognize that I do have strong opinions, and I lean more to one side regarding, you know, not sharing children online and things like that. But again, I'm just navigating it like everybody else, and I came at it from specifically, you know, a privacy and informed consent standpoint. I just believe kids have a right to privacy, and I believe they have a right to informed consent, and that's important, and all the other stuff specifically regarding safety and online predators and things like that. That's been very eye-opening for me, because I started these topics basically from like, don't kids just deserve privacy? Shouldn't we just give them a little more privacy? And think about how we share them online, and it's, you know, tumble-weeded from there.

Danielle Bettmann  10:14  
Yeah, for good reason. You know, as things continue to kind of escalate and grow and evolve, I think we'd benefit from just a little bit of a vocabulary lesson to start. So what is generation shared?

Sarah Adams  10:29  
Most people would refer to generation shared as those children who have been born into a society in which parents are sharing online like our lives, their lives, our experiences, our photos, being born into this digital world where, you know, there doesn't seem to be much of a separation between the online world and the physical world anymore.

Danielle Bettmann  10:52  
Okay, and sharenting.

Sarah Adams  10:54  
Yeah, a portmanteau of sharing and parenting, right? How parents are sharing their children online.

Danielle Bettmann  11:02  
Okay, yep, and is there different types of what that can look like right now? 

Sarah Adams  11:07  
Oh, definitely. You know, there are the big ones, the ones that are kind of in your face, regarding the YouTube family vloggers, or the really popular influencer/mom influencers on Instagram. Then there are the regular everyday folks who maybe you have a friend or a cousin or an old co-worker who is sharing a lot regarding their child's life in a smaller circle that may be private, but maybe public, but there are different variations of sharing our kids and our experiences online.

Danielle Bettmann  11:46  
Yeah, do you feel like it was like a boom in the pandemic or the pandemic exacerbated? Or, how do you feel like that has contributed? 

Sarah Adams  11:54  
Yeah, that is a great question, and one I really relate to because, I became a mom in late 2017 and I followed a lot of mommy people online, specifically on Instagram, and I wasn't engaging, I wasn't active. I was more of a ghost follower. But in 2017 I didn't think much about it. I thought, you know, there's some community, there's some tips, some tricks, some relatability, figure out what car seat to buy, and things like that, you know? As new parents, we're looking for connection. We're looking for information, right? So it felt normal. It wasn't until the pandemic, that I had my second child in March 2020, and we were all online more that year, at home with a baby, and I just started to feel uncomfortable with the amount I was seeing shared, whether that was of influencers and their kids or friends and their kids. It just felt like it was overwhelming. We were seeing kids wake up and walk to school and what they were wearing. It felt like all day these kids were being tracked on Instagram stories and so, yeah, I would say it was in 2020- 2021 when society, really, like global society, hopped online, that it was an eye-opening experience. For me, my light bulb moment was just watching an influencer and realizing holy, I shouldn't have access to this information. I am a stranger. I shouldn't know about this child's medical diagnosis. I shouldn't have access to this, I feel very uncomfortable. It was just a light switch that went on and I looked at it very differently ever since then

Danielle Bettmann  13:41  
I can relate to that too. I became a parent in 2013 and had a Facebook, didn't have an Instagram. I wasn't that cool yet. I would just share milestones and updates with, you know, the family and the people that I had connected there on my private page, and it just all of a sudden, just didn't feel right, because I knew we as parents are very vocal about how thankful we are that we didn't have social media in middle school and high school right, like we're so glad that there's not all of that data and evidence just looming constantly, you know, as a permanent recognition of the things we went through. We lucked out. Then now I've been hearing that some people, when they meet someone in college and they want to get to know them, to see if they want to date them, they'll go on that college student's mom's Facebook, to stalk them, because that's where all the information is. That feels weird and very kind of like dystopian or something. We all kind of, I think, are starting to feel that vibe. I ended up taking all my pictures of my kids off of all social media, and don't use them in any imaging or anything, and haven't for a lot of years now, but, you know, it's very much still the norm, and I think that that does almost create a sense of disconnection for a family that's just kind of either expected or want to stay up with things. You can ask me, I guess, you know, or we can FaceTime, but I think that there's likely a lot of listeners that would say I have a private page and I share pictures there. I'm not an influencer yet. You know, like, it seems harmless, so let's talk about the risks. I found that there's like a list of like five, I think that you had on the kids are not content websites. We can just kind of walk through each of those. The first one - digital footprint and privacy risks.

Sarah Adams  15:48  
So that is kind of what you were referring to, right? A digital footprint is the images and information we're putting online, in regard, in this case, to our children that will follow them around until college, until somebody you know finds their mom's public Facebook page and can go back to baby pictures and awkward photos and see likes and dislikes, and that could be concerning, right? We don't know the ramifications and the potential consequences of that. We don't know if some of these kids are not going to like that, they're like, you know, let's for example, say medical diagnoses are out there for the world, for potential employers to see and things like that. So digital footprint is being mindful of the trail that parents are leaving for their children, a trail that those children did not consent to have public or private, right?

Danielle Bettmann  16:41  
Just because your page is private doesn't mean that the pictures will stay private necessarily, right? 

Sarah Adams  16:48  
Yeah, sadly, you would like to think that private means private, but in the era of the Internet, nothing is private. I have had so many people reach out with stories regarding their private accounts where videos have ended up, or photos have ended up, or that person who was following me was not who they said they were. I always tell parents, to go private with a curated list of friends and family that you know and trust, while also being mindful of the images and information you share, in understanding that nothing is truly private on the internet.

Danielle Bettmann  17:32  
You can download it, you can screenshot it, you can share it, and most likely, if you've had a Facebook page since college like I have, you don't personally connect with everyone that's still there. 

Sarah Adams  17:48  
I think everybody should go through their old Facebook and, you know, unfriend some people and maybe lock down some photo albums and download them to your hard drive and get them off as soon as you can.

Danielle Bettmann  18:02  
Yeah. Okay. So that's the digital footprint. Identity theft?

Sarah Adams  18:06  
Identity theft. Barclays Bank released a statement a few years ago saying that the rates of identity theft and fraud are going to skyrocket by 2030 because of the amount of information parents are putting online, you know, full names and birthdays and then where they're born, and potential password information, right? It's all kind of out there. Sadly, there are some nefarious people out there who are saving that information and are going to be waiting until children turn 18 to open credit cards and lines of credit and see what they can get away with. You know, like fraud today and scams are unbelievable. What is happening? So just think about how much more advanced they will be in a few years. By giving full names and personally identifiable information, we're leaving a lot out there for these people to find that could potentially harm our kids later in life.

Danielle Bettmann  19:08  
Yeah. I think I saw a statistic that said two-thirds of identity fraud will be accounted for because of sharenting.

Sarah Adams  19:16  
Crazy statistic.

Danielle Bettmann  19:17  
That is concerning, to say the least.

Sarah Adams  19:22  
It is, I think. I'm glad you mentioned it because a lot of people always think that the risk is just creepy people, you know predatory people online. But there are so many other risks, and identity fraud is one.

Danielle Bettmann  19:38  
Yeah. So, online predators, that's the next one. 

Sarah Adams  19:43  
You know, parents are putting a lot of information out regarding like, where their children are at any given moment. You know, I have seen parents outside of schools with their school crest and the name, and I have seen the parks that they attend and the activity, and the cheerleading team. Thankfully, I rarely hear about a story about an individual showing up. But I just think that if the possibility is even there, why risk it? Right? Another aspect of predatory individuals is the way that they take these photos and the videos and the discussions they have online on private threads, the advancements in AI, and the advancements in nudity apps, I've seen some of these private chats on Discord and Telegram that are discussing, you know, famous child influencers online, and it is absolutely disgusting. It's disgusting, and to think that a child one day might Google their name and find out a whole forum of predatory adults who are discussing their pre-pubescent body and what they would do to them. And that's all because mom and or dad were allowing all these photos and things to be out there. It could be very concerning, upsetting, and potentially life-altering for these kids as they get older.

Danielle Bettmann  21:14  
Oh, absolutely, to say the least, really. I want to circle back to that, but let's cover the last two, so cyberbullying and online harassment. 

Sarah Adams  21:23  
Yeah, there are a lot of parents who are posting videos that are embarrassing or publicly shaming their children. The amount of parents I have seen post videos publicly shaming their child, for you know, not doing their homework or being a bully or things is really concerning. It's like perpetuating a cycle, and you never know what could be turned into a GIF, what could be turned into a meme, what embarrassing video will be circulating on the internet forever, and parents do have to think long and hard before they post something. Does this video or this image have the potential to embarrass my child later in life or to harm them later in life, or what happens if their classmates come and find a whole segment on their potty training and things like that? You know, parents, I would like to think aren't malicious in their sharing, but they're just not overthinking it. When it comes to our kids, there are some things that we should overthink because they will have consequences later in life. Another aspect of cyberbullying is adults bullying children online. I have seen so many adults just bully children for their physical appearance, speech, their development and to find a Reddit thread later in life that was discussing your physical appearance as like a toddler or a child. It's just no, I can't see anybody wanting that for themselves or their children.

Danielle Bettmann  23:00  
No, and have there been now, people of age that were children in those situations, that have, now, spoken out about that like as 18-year-olds?

Sarah Adams  23:15  
I've seen some, and I've had some private conversations with moms of children who were like GIFs and memes and things like that, and they've discussed that had they known, they would have never posted that in the first place. I do think there have been people who have spoken out anonymously, family vlogger kids influencer kids, and things like that. I think we're just starting to hear it right? It's just the rumblings are starting, Shari Franke of the Ruby Franke Eight Passengers just announced this week, that she's releasing a book, and that is going to be very insightful and eye-opening to a lot of people. So, you know, I think we're just beginning to hear from these kids of how their parent sharing affected them later in life.

Danielle Bettmann  24:02  
Yeah, I know I read, I don't remember which one it was, one of the Duggar daughters, her book. Of course, that's a little bit different because it was a TV show, but still, you know, the same type of thing.

Sarah Adams  24:16  
It's still exploitative, right? You know, we've heard a lot from Colin Gosling, from John and Kate, Plus Eight sharing his experience. We heard from Honey Boo Boo, how her mother stole the majority of her income. You know, it was first the child stars of the entertainment industry speaking out. Now it's like the reality TV kids speaking out. Next, it will be like the online influencer, a child of influencer kids speaking up. 

Danielle Bettmann  24:16  
Like there's waves, yeah, yeah, because Jeanette McCurdy's book is a similar, you know, child star.

Sarah Adams  24:53  
Yeah, Allison Stoner has a book. The recent documentary done by Demi Lovato for Hulu, Child Star, you know, the list goes on.

Danielle Bettmann  25:04  
There was one about Nickelodeon kid stars, I can't remember.

Sarah Adams  25:07  
Yes, oh, what was that one called? I can't remember, but yes, that one was pretty groundbreaking.

Danielle Bettmann  25:18  
Quiet On Set.

Sarah Adams  25:19  
There we go. We did it.

Danielle Bettmann  25:22  
We did it, yes. So I do think that we can connect enough dots that there's damage being done. We know that the precedent of like, you know, child stars, who have been very much in the light and even consented to it, you know, questions around that, whether it was informed consent, but knowing that there's a whole new world of kids who really have no even idea who's seeing them and why and what moments, it is worth pausing and really considering and thank you for walking through all those risks, because in some ways, you know, our brains are great at jumping to conclusions about what could happen on the way to school today, what could happen, you know, after school and at the store, and we're quite vigilant in some situations.

Danielle Bettmann  26:16  
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Danielle Bettmann  28:17  
I found a couple of analogies that you had shared on TikTok that I think helped put it into perspective of thinking like social media like a public park. Tell us more about that.

Sarah Adams  28:27  
One analogy that I go back to sometimes is, you know, would you bring your child to a public park, knowing that there are predators there, but they are just sitting on a bench and watching? They are not interacting. They are not filming. They are just present. But you know that they're predators. Would you bring your child to that park? Overwhelmingly, the answer is absolutely not, regardless of if they are not filming, or regardless. I'm not putting my child in harm's way or even to be able to be looked at in that way, right? But sadly, online, we know that there are, I think the FBI estimates there are 500,000 active predators online each day. We know these people are here, and yet we continue to provide them with images and videos that they are literally waiting for, and that's really concerning. 

Danielle Bettmann  29:34  
Absolutely and even just imagining if I was at Target, and, you know, somebody just started taking pictures of my daughters, or, like, videoing them. How uncomfortable that would make me?

Sarah Adams  29:47  
Yeah, of course. One of the classic analogies is, would you give photos of your children to strangers on the street? A campaign in France recently just did this and they had, you know, an actress, but she was handing out photos of her daughter online. Some of the reactions were very interesting, and everyone was slightly taken aback by this mother, just handing out photos and relaying all this information. But I don't think parents realize you're doing that every day on the internet. You're just handing these platforms, these photos, and this information, and we just need to look at it differently. I think we need to look at it sharing through a different lens. I choose to look at it as our kids deserve privacy. Our kids don't deserve to be products of these platforms and have their human existence exploited in the form of entertainment online, right? I guess that's specifically influencers and family vloggers. But you know, the everyday parent also has to be mindful of the information they are sharing. The number of comments I receive from people who say things like, oh, I couldn't even stand when my mom was on the phone sharing with my aunt my troubles at school or my bullying or things like that. Now parents are literally online sharing with billions of people their children's struggles at school and their bullying situations, right?

Danielle Bettmann  31:24  
That is such a disconnect for some reason between the online world and the real-life world and the decision-making that's involved with that. Again, I don't think that is malicious on purpose. I think it's just a gap in insight and perspective of knowing the decision that we're actually making, and that being one that's really informed with all the implications of that down the road. I do think it just does come down to a fundamental idea around children's rights that in the United States, I would argue, kind of doesn't exist. Do you agree?

Sarah Adams  32:00  
Yeah, from my understanding, the US is one of the few countries that didn't ratify the UN's rights to children, which is interesting. One of their main ones is privacy, right? I think there is this capitalistic consumerism that is taking place in North America, and now we are commercializing children's childhoods, right? We are turning them into products to be consumed online. It's not a child actor, it's the real human existence, and there's something really icky in thinking that a child was born into a world to be exploited online by the people who are supposed to protect them and that society is okay with it, and that society follows and likes and engages in this. I would say, a little more prevalent in America, but I've also seen a lot of it in the UK and Australia as well. I would say those are the three that are really focused on, like the family vloggers and the influencers and that kind of lifestyle.

Danielle Bettmann  33:13  
Yeah. So let's move into that world a little bit more. You know, is the only option to unfollow or well, let me start here. What types of content and accounts do you feel are exploitative? 

Sarah Adams  33:28  
So, I usually say that if you were looking at an account, we'll just say an Instagram account, and the majority of the content is that of children, so the content is solely of a child or primarily features a child, and the account would not be successful without regularly featuring that child, in my opinion, that is child exploitation, and those accounts we should not follow. I think anyone who is a family vlogger and vlogging a child's human existence and not giving them safe spaces is now their business manager and their producer. I think we should unfollow them as well.

Danielle Bettmann  34:11  
Yeah, I think that's a good rule, and some of it does seem, quote, harmless, right where you come across a viral video of a super cute four-year-old that's talking about, how they think this rule needs to happen at home, you know, about something about their brother and it's cute and it's hilarious and it's harmless. What's the darker side of that?

Sarah Adams  34:35  
The darker side is, say that video does go viral, and now there are a bunch of people potentially making fun of that child online, turning them into memes, turning them into inappropriate memes, the fact that that child might never be able to escape being that memeified gift child that will forever, ever follow them depending on what they're doing in a video. There are certain videos that predators do enjoy. There are a lot of parents who put a lot of food content out regarding their babies, you know, eating a banana or licking an ice cream or things like that. To the average person, it's a baby like licking an ice cream, but to sick people with twisted minds who are very unwell online, it can be interpreted as something sexual and something different. For me, that was a really big eye-opener, because I don't, like the majority of parents, I would hope don't look at children, right? You don't see it like that. But then once you learn about it, you can't unrealize it, you can't unsee it, right? So there's a lot that can happen with innocent videos. I do want to just say that, like, I'm not out here trying to remove kids from the internet. I don't think it's like this super black-and-white thing, and we're going to remove kids from the internet and protect them. We're beyond that. It's about being mindful of what we share. There's a difference between a parent who posts one funny video and it goes viral, versus parents who are only posting videos of their children for content in hopes that it goes viral because that's all they have.

Danielle Bettmann  36:28  
Right? It's purely because then that will be monetized, and then they'll be able to make money off of that, and that then propels the cycle forward. So let's go to the edge of the spectrum. What are some of the worst things you've seen parents do for viewing?

Sarah Adams  36:42  
I think one of the worst will be the phallic food things, which is always very upsetting. There's a lot of like bath time, naked babies and things like that. I would say overarching, the one that I was focused on the past few years, whereas the parents, specifically mothers, who hyper-sexualize and exploit their young girls online and have individuals pay for exclusive content of their children, I think that is some of the worst things I've seen you. 

Danielle Bettmann  37:20  
So educate me on that, because I wasn't familiar with that. Is that like dancers, like a gymnast? 

Sarah Adams  37:28  
Yes, so gymnast, dance, cheer. There is a community online of these, mainly mothers who hyper-sexualized their children and limited clothing-specific poses, and then sell access to more pictures, more videos, and more online chats via subscription service. I have caught them on private websites doing this, websites like Brand Army has been doing this, and even on Meta platforms. An expose earlier this year by the Wall Street Journal in the New York Times exposed this, and they have been slowly shutting them down, but this was going unchecked for years.

Danielle Bettmann  38:19  
Wow. Okay, and I have always had a hard time with, you know, parents that share meltdowns, tantrums, really hard, emotional times with their kids.

Sarah Adams  38:31  
I would like to think we all have a problem with seeing these super sensitive and personal moments shared online.

Danielle Bettmann  38:39  
Yeah. I mean, it really is like a golden rule type of thing, of like, would you want your moment like that shared? Because we all have them, and they feel very vulnerable. 

Sarah Adams  38:51  
It's so interesting, because just the other day, I had a video of this as it relates to private medical information.  Could you imagine if your partner or the person you love and trust, went online and shared your private medical information with the world, and you didn't know, and you didn't consent to this? I had someone call me a Karen, and I thought that was so interesting that some people think like that, that's like an overstep or something like that, that advocating for you to share your moments and your information, and it should be in your control, saying that they felt like I was being a Karen. It was just interesting.

Danielle Bettmann  39:38  
I am honestly not surprised by that, because I still think there is a huge stigma of that it's not okay to tell others how to parent. 

Sarah Adams  39:48  
I feel that when I first came on to the scene, we'll call it, I was a pretty polarizing figure for a few years there. I was upsetting and disrupting the social norm, and people didn't necessarily like what I had to say. So I can relate to that. It wasn't about me telling, because for me, it's not about a parent like child exploitation and invading your child's right to privacy isn't like a parenting style, right? We're not arguing over gentle parenting and authoritative parenting. 

Danielle Bettmann  40:28  
Or this isn't organic baby food versus regular. 

Sarah Adams  40:31  
You know, like, breastfed, bottle, whatever, it's not the same. This is the inherent rights of a human being, and what should they just be born into? Should they be born into a world in which they have some semblance of privacy, that the world doesn't know everything about them, and that they never look back on life and think, like, hold on? Was I just content? Was that my purpose? Is that why I was like, here, you know?

Danielle Bettmann  41:06  
Yeah,  oh, of course, my entire job, role career, is protecting the parent-child relationship and strengthening it. There's a huge concern with the trust between them, if there are a lot of things that are done without the child's consent, to go behind their back and share moments, especially if they are very vulnerable from coming from the child, and I think I saw maybe it was on your page, maybe it wasn't where someone had stitched a video of a mom talking to her daughter, and her daughter was asking the mom, like Mom, someone came up to me at the park and said she saw me dancing on Instagram. Why did she say I'm dancing on Instagram? I don't dance on Instagram, and you could watch her like the visceral sense of innocence seems to crack as her mom is just laughing and still recording this interaction.

Sarah Adams  42:05  
Yeah, I know. I know, it's it's a little warped, right? Like, what are we? What are we teaching our children, they cannot consent to being in these spaces. They can't consent to their experiences and their lives being used as content. For us, as adults who put themselves out there on social media, have a podcast. We know what we're consenting to, and at the same time, we kind of don't, because you never know what is going to happen, where your clips going to end up, if something's going to go viral, it's still overwhelming to think of, you know, hundreds of 1000s of people like watching you, or when, when video goes viral, and now you have millions of people watching you. You know, like we as adults, have a hard time conceptualizing this and understanding it and truly getting it. There's no way kids can. There is no way kids can. I don't care if you ask that you could post that video, because that's a justification. Parents say often after a video goes viral and everyone's like, you shouldn't have done that, they'll come and they'll be like, well, I asked my five-year-old if I could post it, and they said yes, and it's like, oh no, oh no. 

Danielle Bettmann  43:26  
Would you have been okay if they said no? Was that even an option?

Sarah Adams  43:30  
Right? Well, there are a lot of videos out there where you hear kids saying, like, no, stop filming. I don't want a picture. I don't want this. And yet, here I am watching that video where the child is clearly saying, don't film me. And not only did you film them, but you posted it publicly online.

Danielle Bettmann  43:50  
It just feels icky. I was talking to two other moms this morning. I met with a new CPA accountant firm, and we got on to talking about YouTubers and like, channels and things that our kids liked, and we brought up these, like, family vloggers, and we all just had a visceral reaction of being like, oh, it's just so hard to watch. It's so uncomfortable. I don't know how to explain to my kid that these kids, they're having fun, they look like they're having a lot of fun, but they're being exploited by their parents and like, I can't, in good conscience, enjoy this type of content as entertainment. So what do you do with that? Because, of course, kids are drawn to it and fed it, you know, very regularly.

Sarah Adams  44:34  
Well, personally, one of the first things I did was I just deleted YouTube Kids. My children don't have access to YouTube. I just don't let them watch that app. That's one thing they don't see, they think I'm on TV. They're young, right? They're both under the age of six. I'm not at the point where I am having them look at Instagram and TikTok and things like that. But I think it's important for children who do see these family vlogging channels and things like that, for parents to have conversations regarding why we are not going to watch those channels because those children do not have a choice in what they are doing. They are not protected. It's not like the actors on the TV shows and the movies they watch and things like that, and we can't support children who aren't protected. We can't support children who don't have a say, and therefore, you know, we're not going to allow that content in our household. 

Danielle Bettmann  45:39  
I think that's a completely valid and great conversation topic to have with older kids, if that's you know something, listeners find themselves in those conversations, which I do. So bringing it back to practical for the average everyday parent who you know, isn't trying to make money off their kids, isn't filming them all day, every day, but they have their Instagram. They post stories. They have, you know, posts regularly about milestones and updates on the kids. What are some things they should ask themselves before hitting post?

Sarah Adams  46:10  
I think you have to ask yourself, why am I posting this? I think once parents realize that most of their posts are for their benefit, and not necessarily for their kid's benefit. Like, you know, we're getting the dopamine hit too when, like, we share a cute photo of our kid and people like it and comment, how sweet, and stuff like that, that's all back on us. It's not benefiting your child in any capacity, right? So I think parents need to look internally as to, why do I feel the need to post this, to share this, to be filming my child at the park, on stories and things like that. Is this information private, right? Like, does this even need to be shared with aunts or uncles or cousins or coworkers? Is there any chance they would not want this shared or be embarrassed later in life? As you know, some general rules I always tell parents, you know, to go private, curate their follower list, and be mindful of the information and images they share.

Danielle Bettmann  47:19  
Yeah, well, as we wrap up, is there anything else we haven't covered that you always want to be sure that parents hear or understand?

Sarah Adams  47:28  
I think one thing that I would like to dive into more is also how much we as parents our phone use and our consumption of social media will impact our children. I personally believe in delaying smartphones and delaying social media for children. I think the evidence is very clear, and I think that we as parents also need to do a better job of modeling good phone screen time behavior. You know, I'm like everybody else. I can get trapped in a doom scroll, and I can, you know, tell my child, oh, I'll be there one minute. Let me finish this email and things like that. But how we interact with technology our devices and our screens is going to be very impactful on our children. So being mindful of that is something that I would like to just have parents pause on and think about. You know, how much time you're spending on your phone in front of your kids?

Danielle Bettmann  48:31  
Oh, yeah, definitely sometimes the last thing we're mindful of, because we got a lot going on, and there's a lot, it's a long day.

Sarah Adams  48:41  
A lot of us, like our businesses, are on our phones and things like that, and so creating some like rules, some self-imposed rules around when you're on your phone and when you're not and things like that, I think that will really benefit kids down the line if they see parents modeling good screen time and social media behavior.

Danielle Bettmann  49:01  
Absolutely, is there any apps or other ways that you find that families can stay connected that are off typical social media?

Sarah Adams  49:11  
I personally am not connected to any of my family on social media. So I like the good pick up the phone and call. I like to text a photo, you know, I will FaceTime family, but I like to go back to the classics, go back to old school. Throw it back to a good old phone call or a good old FaceTime. You know, we parents need to remember that we've concocted this world where we feel like we have to share so much. This is all part of like, the platform's goal of keeping us glued to our screens more, right? It's not the way it has to be. Our parents weren't sharing all these photos and milestones of us. We turned out fine, and even if we could go back, we don't have the time to go back through 1000s of hours of photos and things like that, right? So I think it is time that parents are parents, and people are just waking up to the fact that, like we are all products for these social media platforms, and it's the attention economy, and we need to stop giving them so much of our attention and focus on the people in our lives who really matter. So, you know, pick up the phone and call your mom, call your best friend, you know, send an email. Oh, send an email with an attachment, right? 

Danielle Bettmann  50:39  
I love that when my husband and I were dating in college, we were long-distance and we didn't have smartphones, so he had a digital camera that he would have to upload pictures onto his, you know, laptop and then send them as an attachment to an email of his selfie. 

Sarah Adams  50:56  
Yeah, I remember coming back from the bar after college and plugging in your little digital camera and putting them all on Facebook and things like that. I think that also just speaks to the digital autonomy that we have and that  I believe our children should have a little more than we're affording them, right? You know, we came on as an elder millennial, and I got Facebook at 21 I curated my digital footprint, and I was in charge of it, and I think we talk a lot, and we did at the beginning of the podcast, but how lucky we are, how important that is. Well, if we believe that, shouldn't we give more digital autonomy to our children to hop on at, you know, 16-18, and just be who they are and just share what they want?

Danielle Bettmann  51:43  
Without all that baggage, of those embarrassing pictures, all that baggage. Well, how can listeners connect more with your work? 

Sarah Adams  51:52  
You can find me on socials. My main three are YouTube TikTok and Instagram. I go by mom, M, O M, even though a lot of people hear me say, Mom with the U, it's Mom.Uncharted. You can also check out my website at kidsarenotcontent.com to just learn more about child exploitation legislation worldwide as well as in the States, and just what sharenting is and why all of this matters. 

Danielle Bettmann  52:20  
I love it. The more educated we are on these matters, the more we can take action and that is so needed here. So thank you again for that work. Thanks for your time today, and as we wrap up, have to ask you the question I ask every guest that I have on, which is, how are you the mom your kids need?

Sarah Adams  52:36  
I'm the mom my kids need right now by putting down my phone more and being present, honestly,  I think being present with our kids, leaving your phone in your bedroom, taking the weekend off social media, and showing them that they're the most important things, and you're listening to them versus the phone. You know, it's a habit of parents. We have the phone on us. We put it on the table. It's with us all the time. We're filming them. We're not looking into their eyes, we're looking at them through a screen. So I think it is being really present. In this digital world, being present means putting down the phone. Putting down the phone more.

Danielle Bettmann  53:18  
Absolutely. Well, they are lucky to have you, and we are lucky to have you today. Thanks again for all your expertise and for sharing it in such a just a relatable way. I think we'll all feel a little bit better about our decisions tomorrow. So thank you so much.

Sarah Adams  53:35  
I really appreciate the time. Thank you, Danielle.

Danielle Bettmann  53:43  
Thank you so much for tuning into this episode of Failing Motherhood. Your kids are so lucky to have you. If you loved this episode, take a screenshot right now share it in your Instagram stories and tag me. If you love the podcast, be sure that you've subscribed and leave a review so we can help more moms know they are not alone if they feel like they're failing motherhood daily, and if you're ready to transform your relationship with your strong-willed child and invest in the support you need to make it happen, schedule your free consultation using the link in the show notes. I can't wait to meet you. Thanks for coming on this journey with me. I believe in you and I'm cheering you on.