"I can figure this out" with Marli Klaus

My guest today, Marli Klaus, is a mom of three, a pediatric sleep consultant, and a trainer and mentor for other sleep consultants as the owner of The Cradle Coach and The Cradle Coach Academy. 

I’ve known Marli for several years and had the chance to work with her family last winter!

In our conversation, Marli shares very openly and honestly about her fears for her son, the way she dreaded pickup, the heartbreaking effect on her other kids, the determination she felt to figure it out herself, and the guilt for clearly failing him somehow.

I hope you see yourself and your family in Marli’s story and find hope.

IN THIS EPISODE, WE COVERED...

• Why Marli *couldn't* figure it out all by herself
• What her husband needed to hear & experience that made all the difference
• What she would go back & tell herself now

DON'T MISS-

• Why sleep is so underrated yet so important

// CONNECT WITH MARLI //
Website: www.thecradlecoachacademy.com
Instagram: @thecradlecoach & @thecradlecoachacademy

I believe in you + I'm cheering you on.
Come say hi!  I'm @parent_wholeheartedly on Insta.
Apply to work together: parentingwholeheartedly.com/Apply

Transcript

Marli  0:00  
Our ability to look at the situation and see it in a different light than we did before is what has changed everything, and allows us to think through what we can do differently to hopefully get a different result. It doesn't always end up in a different result, but most of the time it does. Overall, I would say it's night and day difference. I'm excited to pick them up from school, like, I leave to go get them from school, and I'm like, oh, today's gonna be a great day. And we go on a walk after school, or we cook dinner together, or whatever it might be, and it's just totally different.

Danielle Bettmann  0:40  
Ever feel like you suck at this job? Motherhood, I mean. Have too much anxiety, not enough patience? Too much yelling, not enough play? There's no manual, no village, no guarantees. The stakes are high. We want so badly to get it right, but this is survival mode. We're just trying to make it to bedtime. So if you're full of mom guilt, your temper scares you, you feel like you're screwing everything up, and you're afraid to admit any of those things out loud - this podcast is for you.

Danielle Bettmann  1:14  
This is Failing Motherhood. I'm Danielle Bettmann, and each week we'll chat with a mom ready to be real, sharing her insecurities, her fears, her failures and her wins. We do not have it all figured out. That's not the goal. The goal is to remind you you are the mom your kids need. They need what you have. You are good enough, and you're not alone. I hope you pop in earbuds, somehow sneak away, and get ready to hear some hope from the trenches. You belong here, friend, we're so glad you're here.

Danielle Bettmann  1:55  
Hey, it's Danielle, my guest today, Marli is a mom of three, a Pediatric Sleep Consultant, and a trainer and mentor for other sleep consultants. She's the owner of The Cradle Coach and The Cradle Coach Academy and has spent 13 years growing a successful career in corporate before she realized it was possible to do what you love, create your schedule, and still earn a great income. So she became a sleep consultant and now trains and certifies new sleep consultants to do the same, and we'll chat a little bit more about sleep towards the end of this conversation. But I've known Marli for several years and had the chance to work with her family last winter. So now that it's been almost a full year, I am going to read for you the contrast between some of her initial response statements and her final form responses. So what she wrote in her goals when we first met, 'I want to enjoy time with my son again. I find myself stressing out about any period beyond just an hour or so that we have together because I know it's going to be a disaster. I hate it. I hate who I am with him right now.'

Danielle Bettmann  3:02  
And after working together, she wrote, 'Everything is different. We have meltdowns, possibly once a week, if even that. And when we do have them, they are very, very short-lived. I had a realization the other day when my son said, I hate you to me for the first time in forever that it had been so long since I'd heard that, and he used to say that to me daily, multiple times a day. I probably hadn't heard him say it in two to three months before that happened, and even then, we moved past it fast. I used to have to close him up in his room for 30 minutes while he destroyed his room, tried to hit me when I walked in, screamed at me, hysterically crying. That has not happened in months. He's truly a different kid. It's not even comparable to before. Parenting used to feel overwhelming like we were walking on eggshells all the time, and now it feels so much easier. It's not easy and likely never will be, but it doesn't feel like an insurmountable hill anymore.' 

Danielle Bettmann  4:01  
So today in our conversation, Marli shared very openly and honestly about her fears that she held for her son, the way she dreaded pickup, the heartbreaking effect she was realizing it was having on her other kids, the determination she felt to figure it out herself, and the guilt she felt for clearly failing him, somehow, she explains what made all the difference. She explains what she and her husband needed to hear and experience, why she now feels like they were struggling so much before, and what she would go back and tell herself now, I'm just so grateful, because very rarely on the internet, do you get to hear this much vulnerability. I hope, if you're struggling at all at your house, you see yourself and your family in Marli's story and find hope. So let's dive in.

Danielle Bettmann  5:00  
Welcome to Failing Motherhood. My name is Danielle Bettmann, and on today's episode, it is a treat. I am joined by a previous client. Her name is Marli. Marli, thank you so much for being here. 

Marli  5:11  
Of course, I'm excited to chat with you. 

Danielle Bettmann  5:14  
I am too. It's been a little while since I haven't seen your face for, I don't know, nine months, I think, from the last time that we worked together, which is wild, and we both had to, like, refresh our memories because it's been a blur of chaos leading up to and after that. But we get the treat today of, kind of just getting to know your family story, what you ended up doing that made a big difference, and then kind of what you're doing now. And I just really appreciate the opportunity to get to that behind-the-scenes look at what that has looked like at your house, and I appreciate so much you being able to be honest and vulnerable about what that has looked like. And I know it's just you. It's not your partner. We did work together as a family, and he was a little less excited about the opportunity to be on a podcast. You're used to it, you have your podcast so you can speak for him, if you have his permission, on some of his views of things as well, because I do think that's an important contribution. But before we get too deep, go ahead and just share a quick recap. Who is in your family, and how did you find me? 

Marli  6:24  
So yes, so my husband, Colby, and I actually chatted last night a little bit about this. He knew that I was doing this today, so he shared some of his insights, and I took some notes, so I will definitely share that along the way. But yeah, so my husband, Colby, and I, and then we have three children. We have Lennon, who is about to be nine. We have Harrison, who just turned seven, and then we have Ella, who just turned four. Lots going on at our house all the time. They are lots of fun, but they also can be super crazy. So just a lot of things. And how I found you, so actually, you were on my old podcast as a guest probably what, like two and a half years ago, something like that. It's been a while.  So my sleep-focused podcast that we met then and then ever since then, I really just resonated with everything that you shared whenever you and I had that conversation. So I continued following you, and then as we progressed in our parenting journey, and realized that a lot of the things that we were facing were just out of our, you know, knowledge base, and things that we didn't know how to handle. I kept coming back to you and listening to podcast episodes and thinking about whether it could be a good fit for us to work together. And so it was kind of a long journey getting us there, but once we decided to dive in, we were all in. And it was great. 

Danielle Bettmann  7:48  
Yes, it was. It was definitely great. There were steps along the way, and we'll kind of talk about that. But starting from the top, early parenting years, first few years, where were you guys at? What was going on for you? What kind of a parent were you? 

Marli  8:05  
Yeah, so I would say it's interesting thinking back the first couple of years were easy. Like, you know, when they're babies, and then they're like, very young toddlers. It's not the intensity or the stress that comes whenever they start talking back, and whenever they start challenging you and realizing that they can push back. And so, you know, we had Lennon first, obviously, and then Harrison and Lennon are 17 months apart, so we had that time with her on her own, which wasn't a lot of time, but things were so simple. Like I looked back then, and I'm like, man, life was so easy. And of course, it wouldn't have continued to be that as she got older, but that's all that I have to reference as one child, or having only one child was just those first 17 months and, yeah, life was so simple and it was easy. And I was like, this parenting thing is so great, and she's so fun, and I can't imagine ever being annoyed with her. I can't imagine ever feeling frustrated about her, because she's just so much fun. And then, as we, you know, brought Harrison into the fold, and they both got older, and as I mentioned earlier, they started, you know, having their opinions about things, and they started pushing back, and all of the things that come with toddlerhood. Then we started realizing, you know, maybe we don't know as much as we thought we did, and maybe we need to learn a little bit more about what we can do to approach things differently and all of that. So yeah, and I think that pretty quickly we realized that with Harrison, specifically, things were a little bit different. Lennon was a lot more laid back. She had a big personality. She still has a big personality, but she is much more eager to please, I think. And so we started noticing quickly with Harrison that he was so much more active than her, even as a baby, I remember him climbing on top of things that she would never even have thought of doing. I remember with Lennon, we would just quickly say like, hey, no, don't do that. And she would quickly stop it and do whatever we asked her to do. And with Harrison, it was completely the opposite. We would be like, hey, no, don't touch that. And he would smile and look at us and touch it. So those were things that just stick out to me from the beginning, that I remember noticing but still not really identifying, you know, I need to do things differently with him, or really realizing that there could be a different way to handle things. So, yeah, so I think that was kind of the early, the early childhood days where we still felt pretty confident in what we were doing, and then slowly started realizing that there was more to this, and there were some things that we didn't quite know how to handle. 

Danielle Bettmann  10:53  
Well, I think that's super relatable. I think, you know, a lot of parents find themselves, you know, researching a ton for pregnancy and the infant years, expecting that there's going to be some terrible twos, and then, you know, we'll work past that. And you know, potty training is going to be a whole thing. But then we kind of even back out. And then things don't even back out. And, you know, they only kind of continue to gain momentum, and I think that is often exacerbated with a third kiddo or with any other like life changes and stress that comes your way. So what were some of the points in your journey of finding more tools or some of the steps that you took as things continued snowballing? 

Marli  11:44  
Yeah. So I am very solution-oriented as a person, whether it is, you know, in my business or personal life or parenting, whatever it might be. And so as soon as I identify there's a problem, I quickly will just go out and read everything I can find. I will listen to all of the podcasts dive into all of the training and just scramble to try to figure out solutions. The very first step that I took in parenting and trying to figure things out was positive parenting. It was a course, like a self-self study course, and there were so many things in it that I was like, you know, having all of these aha moments and all of these like, wow, I never thought about it that way, and that makes so much sense. At the same time, I was starting therapy for the first time for myself, and so I was learning so much more about myself and so many things that I just hadn't thought of before. And so it was this whole journey, but now, like looking back at it, I realized two of the biggest challenges with that was number one, I was doing it on my own. I didn't have the courage at that point to tell Colby, like, hey, you have to do this with me, or it's not going to work. And so it was more of like, I can fix everything, and I can do it all, and if I'm doing it, then he'll just follow suit. He'll realize that it's working, and he'll do whatever I'm doing. But that didn't necessarily happen, and so it would cause all of this tension in our relationship because I would be frustrated that he wasn't doing things the way that I was doing things, but at the same time, I wasn't realizing that he doesn't have the knowledge I have. He's not going through this program. He doesn't have the foundation to be able to do things differently. But of course, in the heat of the moment, you don't necessarily think through all of those things. So I was just frustrated. So that was part of it, and then I think the other piece that was missing was really just accountability and individualized support. So I was learning all this great information, and like I said, so much of it made so much sense, and a lot of it is closely aligned with what we learned with you as well. But I didn't have anybody to talk through things with. I didn't have anyone an expert like, of course, I had Colby, but he didn't know the answer either. So I didn't have anybody that I could go to and say, like, you know, I see this situation and how this will work in that situation, but here's the actual situation I'm facing, and it's not covered anywhere in this program. And so now I don't know what to do. And so I would find myself just frustrated, and then I would give up and stop doing things the new way that I had learned, and I would revert to the old way of doing things because I didn't see any other way out of it, I guess. So that was kind of the first positive parenting thing that I did. And then I went through, I think Dr. Becky, at some point some of her programs, but same thing, I was doing it on my own, and so we were parenting differently, and I also just didn't have that individualized support to be able to help me stay accountable and to help me navigate some of the more specific situations that we were going through as parents. And the other thing is, I kept seeing all of this language out there around like strong-willed kids and deeply feeling kids, and all of that resonated so much with me whenever it came to Harrison, but again, I didn't really know what to do with that. It was like, Okay, well, I have a quote, unquote definition of what we're facing with him, and I kind of know what we're facing, but how does that change my approach? What do I do differently? And all of that was still unknown to me. 

Danielle Bettmann  15:41  
What a responsive recap to be able to look with hindsight and kind of understand and relate to the parent you were trying to be back then, and kind of seeing the gaps of just why you weren't able on your own with that you know, more self-paced or generic information to be able to get to the place where you needed to which was confidence, which was being grounded, which was being able to individualize, which was being able to completely understand the difference in approaches, and not only a what but the why as well. I think a lot of listeners probably find themselves there where they have access to oodles of parenting tips and hacks and content and things, and it makes sense, and we have aha moments, and tomorrow we find ourselves referring right back to more desperate, helpless measures that we are not proud of at the end of the day, beating ourselves up because we should know better and we know what not to do, and here we are again. So take us through a day in the life of where you were at in the months leading up to working together. What did it look like? 

Marli  16:52  
So it's not fun to think about because it was really tough and it was frustrating and all of those things. But, you know, just constant meltdowns, like we were facing every single day was a battle, and it was almost like I found myself every day, dreading picking them up from school, like I would just be like, oh, like, you know, it's that time again. What is tonight going to bring? What is this day going to look like? And I didn't mention this in the beginning, but up until about two years ago, my husband and I both had really intense jobs. So on top of the normal day-to-day challenges, I also worked full time, and I worked beyond full time. I worked all the time, and then I was also building a business with the intent of being able to leave my job, which happened, but it wasn't, you know, during that time, right before we worked together, I was still working full time, and so I would come home exhausted, and the last thing I wanted to deal with was my child screaming at me, or telling me he hates me, or screaming that he's a bad boy, or that he just doesn't know why we love him, or all of these different things that were happening. So my level of being able to handle those situations and respond appropriately was not there either, because I just was at the end of my rope in all different areas of life, so it just made it that much harder. But yeah, I mean, I would say, like a typical day would involve us having some sort of battle on the way home from school where it was either that I didn't bring the right snack whenever I picked him up, or he would ask me what we were having for dinner, and he didn't like the answer, or whatever it might have been, and so we would already be starting the evening stressed out and frustrated. Then we would get home, I would be cooking dinner, and he would be flat on the ground, throwing a fit, screaming at the top of his lungs, telling me he hates me, telling me that he's a bad boy, and just screaming like this complete and utter meltdown. I don't even know how to describe it, but I'm sure a lot of people listening understand exactly what I'm saying. So I'm sitting there cooking dinner. I'm trying to ignore it, doing my best to just focus on what I'm doing and ignore it. And then at some point I would snap, and I would get frustrated, and I would yell back, or I would pick him up and carry him to his room and shut the door. And when I left him in his room, he would destroy his room. He would be tearing off the sheets from his bed, the blanket from the bed, throwing his pillows, throwing all of his toys, kicking walls, kicking doors, and that's how our evening would progress. And so I would be there texting my husband, who usually wasn't home yet, saying, it's awful. I don't know what to do. I can't handle this anymore, that kind of thing. And then I think you and I talked about this during the program as well, but one of the things that I started noticing towards the end before we worked with you, was our girls because they didn't have those types of outbursts. I felt like they were overcompensating and making themselves smaller, or feeling like they needed to do something to make me feel better. So I would notice a lot of especially with at the time, my almost nine-year-old, she was probably seven and a half or seven at that time, and she, especially, I noticed it more so because, you know, she would walk up and just be like, I love you, Mom, or Mom, it's okay. I'm so sorry he's acting like that, you know, whatever else. Or sometimes she would try to step in and tell him, like, stop acting like that, or stop doing that. You're hurting Mom's feelings or something like that. I think those seeing those kinds of things, on top of, you know, already feeling the desperation and the helplessness, were the things that really triggered me to say like we have to change something, we have to figure something else out because it's not fair for them. It's not fair for any of us, but it's especially not fair for them to suffer through all of this stress and chaos and feel like they have to somehow make it better or feel responsible for it. 

Danielle Bettmann  21:20  
Yeah, that's heartbreaking. And you're so right, and I think that that is sometimes a good wake-up call we can use to be that extra push we needed, because we know it's not good, and we have our own, you know, fears for that child down the road. We know it's not fun, or, you know, it's super stressful, but I believe it's gonna just get better. Surely, we're about out of this phase or season, or, you know, something will change that makes this sustainable or tolerable, or we'll just figure it out, and you don't, and then you really see siblings start to suffer as a result. And that is never your intention. It's never caused by any ill will. There's always good intentions fueling your parenting, and you just only have so much to give. And you are human yourself. So what kept you up at night? Was there anything else that like, as you played things out over the next five to 10 years that you really feared? 

Marli  22:26  
I think the biggest thing was our relationship, I was so worried that Harrison and I were never going to be able to repair, that we were constantly going to have these battles, that it was only going to get worse as he got older, and that he was going to hate us. Or, I mean, like, realistically, I had concerns about, I don't even want to say it, but I feel like I should say it. Realistically, I had concerns about, like, is this the type of behavior that leads to, like, school shootings and that leads to these outbursts that go beyond just hurting my feelings, but go into deeper issues of, like, his mental health and his future and all of those things and like, those were daily thoughts for me, of like, what is this going to lead to? And if I don't, quote, unquote, fix this right now, then what is it going to look like down the road? And then also, I think hearing the words that he would use about himself as I've mentioned already, he constantly all day, every day would say, I'm a bad boy. And he still says it every once in a while, but it's a lot less than it was before. But you know, I'm a bad boy, was frequent. He would even say things like, I hate myself, or I wish I was never born, things like that, where I'm like, how are you even thinking these things? Where do you even hear these things? How do you know to even say these things? So not only was I worried about the other things that I've mentioned, and like his future and all of that, but also just like his own well-being. And are we going to be at a point where he's a teenager and he hates himself, and he's, you know, suicidal, or anything like that? And it's so hard to even think these things naturally, you think them, but it's so hard to say those things out loud, because it's like, if I say it out loud, then is it real? Or if I say it out loud, what are other people going to think about me or whatever else, but all of those things for sure kept me up at night and guilty around like, obviously I'm doing something wrong, or we wouldn't be facing these kind of things. What am I doing wrong? What do I need to do differently? And just falling short every single time, and not knowing what that could look like.

Danielle Bettmann  25:00  
Oh, well, thank you for being honest. Because that absolutely sucks to admit and is extremely terrifying as a parent, but it only matters to you and concerns you because of how much you love him and care about him. So were you confused at all about what the solution was? Like, did you consider like, does he need to go to therapy?

Marli  25:23  
Yes, and we did. We so we took him to a therapist to do an ADHD evaluation, and that's when he was I want to say he was five. Yeah, he was five. So that was the first step. Then I was like, well, maybe she needs to continue seeing him for a just normal behavioral therapy type approach. And we did not end up doing that. We ended up working with you instead. But yeah, definitely I was thinking like, that must be the solution. And I remember, I think it was probably in your free training where you said something about, like, we as parents that are stuck in that situation are constantly thinking about, how do we need to fix them? And most of the time the solution has nothing to do with them. It's about us as parents. I remember that really stuck with me, and I realized, and you even mentioned therapy, like a lot of times, parents jump to thinking that their children need therapy, when, in reality, it's more about the parenting relationship and how we can do things differently to create that different result. And so I think that was part of why we didn't end up doing therapy, and really and truly, we didn't need it. It was about how we could approach things differently to help him.

Danielle Bettmann  26:45  
Yeah, which has to feel like a sigh of relief when you're able to have clarity on that and be like, okay, that was the right decision now that we know so much more than we did then, which is the perfect transition. So I know initially you reached out, I think it was like July. I was looking back at my emails, and we chatted. And I think the biggest hesitation with moving forward was cost. So then you reached out, I think it was like four or five months later in January. And I think there were, like, some investments going on with, like your entrepreneurship at the same time, but talk me through the hesitations and what changed before both you and Colby were ready to dive in. 

Marli  27:33  
So in that initial summer, whenever we had talked, that was my first year having left my corporate job, 2023 so that was my first summer that the kids were home with me all summer because we were transitioning away from this high-paying corporate salary to figuring out a business. And you know, the ups and downs that come with that. So they were home with me all summer, and of course, it was extremely stressful, and we were having all kinds of challenges and all of that. And so in addition to that, I was still trying to grow my business while having them home with me full-time. So I know I had reached out initially just thinking, like, maybe this is the solution, and at that point, I still had not mentioned anything to Colby. I was still in that mindset of like I could solve it myself, I'll figure it out, but yeah, and I know the cost was probably the main reason we didn't move forward, just because, again, we were in this transition period of figuring everything out. I had just started the conversation with the business owner that I ended up taking over the business from, about purchasing this business from her. So we had that happening where we were thinking about all of this investment we were about to make, and so we just kind of put it on the back burner. We were like, you know, I think at that point, I said to myself, like, I'll dive back into positive parenting. I'll try to figure it all back out again, and we'll make some positive changes. I think we did do that. I went through the whole program again. I learned some new things based on, you know, they had changed a little bit because it had been a couple of years. Our kids were a little bit older, and so I was able to make some positive changes. But again, it was still just me, and so I would find myself again, just reverting back to how things were before. It was right after Christmas, early January 2024, that I remember Colby and I just looked at each other, and we were like, something has to change. Like, we can't keep doing this. This cannot be our day-to-day life anymore. And I remember telling him, like, hey, you know, I talked to somebody, and I think it would be a good fit for us. And she focuses exactly on the type of personality and temperament that Harrison has, that's her specialty, and I think that she can really help us. And of course, he was pretty resistant at first, and was, you know, like, why can't we just figure this out on our own? We haven't even tried anything together yet, so I think it took a couple of weeks of us talking back and forth about it, and then eventually he just said, you're right. We can't keep doing this. Let's try it. Let's see what happens, and we'll see how it goes. And so we decided to go ahead and dive in. And I think even leading up to that initial investment, I still was, like, unsure if he was going to come to meetings. I was unsure if he was really going to go through the training, but I knew that we had to do something. So that's whenever we decided to go ahead and do it. 

Danielle Bettmann  30:51  
Yeah, yeah. And looking back now that you know you are where you are now giving the complete contrast. What were you able to accomplish? What is life like now? Then we can circle back to how did you do that, but what were your goals? What does life look like now? 

Marli  31:09  
So I think the biggest thing that we were hoping to accomplish was just like, not even eliminating meltdowns, but just getting to a place where they weren't as frequent. And not only that, but I think, like the other big thing for us was confidence. We needed to have confidence in our approach, and we needed to stay consistent, we needed to have confidence. We needed to know that what we were doing had an end goal and was going to get us to where we wanted to be so pretty quickly, within just a few weeks of being inside the program, we saw a huge reduction in those meltdowns that I mentioned earlier, and then now, which we're almost a year out, we've continued to see that. It's just really and truly when Colby and I talk about it, we mention it all the time, we'll just be like, wow, things are so different now. But whenever we talk about it, we just say, that it changed everything. Like it really changed everything. Our day-to-day life is so much different than it was before. And you know, you're always gonna have challenges. You're always going to have, difficult days, difficult moments. There's never going to be a day that everything's just perfect, but our ability to look at the situation and see it in a different light than we did before is what has changed everything and allows us to think through what we can do differently to hopefully get to a different result. It doesn't always end up in a different result, but most of the time it does. And so yeah, overall, I would say it's night and day difference. I'm excited to pick them up from school. Like, I leave to go get them from school, and I'm like, oh, today's gonna be a great day. And like, we go on a walk after school, or we cook dinner together, or whatever it might be, and it's just totally different. 

Danielle Bettmann  33:07  
That's insane. 

Marli  33:08  
Yeah, it is, like, I probably wouldn't believe it if I didn't see it myself. 

Danielle Bettmann  33:17  
Yeah, I feel like everyone who hears a transformation like that is understandably skeptical. Like, clearly, you drink the Kool-Aid, or, like, you know, I'm paying you or something. Because that's not how parenting strong-willed kids go. It's like there is no magic button, you know, easy solution. So what would you tell yourself from a year and a half ago is different, and why that makes such a big difference? 

Marli  33:47  
Yeah, I mean, I think it's having the tools to know how to approach things differently, but it's also so much more than that. I think that a big thing that sticks out to me is knowing you're not alone, and we can talk more about that too, just the group setting and everything like that, but I think that that's a big part of it, just knowing that I'm not the only one that was going through this and that there's light at the end of the tunnel and all of that. But again, having the tools, knowing you're not alone, and then also just recognizing that there's a reason for the behavior. There's a reason behind whatever is happening and the more that we can try to understand that and then change our approach based on that understanding, the better result we're going to get, and the more like compliance, or whatever we want to call it, we're going to get out of that situation. Whereas in the past, it's like just barrel ahead no matter what, I need you to get your shoes on. So you need to get your shoes on. I don't care what's going on for you. I don't care what else is happening in that brain of yours. Like, we just need to get your shoes on. And now it might be like, okay, let me take a breath and recognize that he just had to stop watching TV in the middle of a show that he really likes. He didn't know that we were gonna leave the house, and he's frustrated. So like, let me take a minute and take a breath and recognize that, and then change my approach based on that understanding, and then it just all becomes a lot easier to navigate. 

Danielle Bettmann  35:31  
Very well said, I love the way that you explained that it's relatable, it feels feasible, that feels doable, and that feels like I can wrap my mind around it.

Danielle Bettmann  35:47  
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Danielle Bettmann  37:47  
So what aspects of working together do you feel like you really benefited from and did you appreciate? 

Marli  37:53  
Yeah, so I think the group setting was the one thing that I was like, I don't really know that I need the group. I can be an extrovert and show up for my business and for things like this, like really and truly, I'm an introvert. I like being by myself. I like having my space and my own time. And so committing to being on those calls every week, in the beginning, I was kind of like, you know, I'll come to the first couple and then we'll see how it goes. But mostly I just want the content and the community, and then we'll figure it out from there. But that ended up being the part that really helped me and helped Colby, I would say for sure, the most, as I mentioned earlier, just having the ability to see that others are going through the same things that we're going through and that they seem to be good, decent people who also have really great intentions. I think that you can build up in your head that only terrible parents are going to have the result that we're having, or only people who are doing things wrong are going to have this result that we're having. And so getting to hear others' stories, getting to hear them just sharing like, hey, this happened yesterday, and this is exactly what happened to us two weeks ago, and knowing that you know they're going through the same things and that they are also learning how to approach things differently. I think I cried like almost every single week in our meetings, because I would hear transformations, or I would hear somebody sharing this happened yesterday, and here's how I approached it differently than I would have before, and here's what happened because of that, and it was just like, wow, I'm here for a reason. I should be going through and taking this seriously and doing all of the things that I need to be doing to hopefully get to that result myself, and then also being able to talk about it yourself, like being able to share things that were happening for you.  They also get the input on things that you didn't know how to handle, like being able to say, hey, Danielle, this happened yesterday, and I had no idea what to do, and it just spiraled out of control. And what could I have done differently? And I loved that you always opened it up to everybody else to say, like, well, does anyone have any ideas, or has anybody else faced this specific situation, and how did you handle it? And then again, being able to hear, not just from you, but also from them, their specific situations that related to mine, and hearing how they navigated, it helped a lot. And again, I think for Colby, that was huge, because he had so much guilt. And I mean, we both did, but he had a lot of guilt around like handling things incorrectly feeling like a failure, or feeling like there's no way anybody else is going through these same things. And so for him, being able to hear a couple of dads in our group that were similar to him where, like, they started in a space of, like, positive parenting is BS, and this is never going to work. And while neither of us have ever taken, like, a, I don't know the right word or definition, but like, we've never been like spankers. We've never like, hit our kids or taken it to that level of trying to make them or force them to comply or whatever. I don't know the right language for it, but hopefully that makes sense. 

Danielle Bettmann  41:39  
Yep, more of an authoritarian. 

Marli  41:40  
Yeah, he still had more of an authoritarian approach than I did, and he still, like he yelled, that was the main thing. He would yell a lot, so I think he felt a lot of guilt around that, but he also could not understand or see how a different approach could have a different outcome. And so he still was very stuck in that like this is the only way. And I'm sure part of it is like the way that he was raised and everything like that. And so for him in the beginning, being able to hear other dads who came in with that thought process as well and had been in a few weeks longer than us, or in some cases, several weeks longer than us, and had been able to see the transformation and the difference that this approach makes was massive for him. And I remember usually he was at work taking the calls when I was at home, and so he would text me and be like, wow, what so and so just said that is exactly, you know, what we've been facing, and it's so it gives me so much hope to hear that they're seeing this better outcome. So I think that was the best part of all of it. You know, as much as the scripts are so helpful and the information is so helpful, it ended up being, I guess the whole package together is what made the biggest difference. Any accountability, like knowing that we have 12 weeks in this group, and we need to do our best to get through it and ask questions and take advantage of this time that we have, and these resources that we have that helped a lot too. 

Danielle Bettmann  43:22  
Yeah, well, said, I mean, obviously I agree, but hearing it from your words means so much more. And you know, I was thinking of families that were in at the same time as you, as you were saying that, and it just like brings tears to my eyes, because it's just so powerful the conversations, I mean, they are truly like an honor to be a part of. Would you agree? 

Marli  43:46  
Oh, for sure, definitely. 

Danielle Bettmann  43:48  
So, knowing that what are some of the biggest changes? How have your relationships changed, like with the siblings, or with, you know, Colby and Harrison, you know, or your marriage? Like, how are relationships different? 

Marli  44:04  
Now, I would say all of the above are very different. Like, as I mentioned in this conversation already, nothing's perfect, and nothing's ever going to be perfect. And like, you know, humans are humans. We all have our flaws and have our tough days and all of that, but at the end of the day, I know that I know how to get to a better place if we do get to one of those difficult times. And so yeah, I mean, I think even taking it from a marriage perspective, the things that you learn about how to approach things with your child, also relate to your marriage and like how to approach things with any relationship that you have, and the ability to change the outcome or change the trajectory of whatever situation is always going to benefit from having an understanding of where the other person is coming from, and kind of walking yourself through, okay, what happened five minutes before this? What happened 20 minutes before this? What happened an hour before this? And if you don't have the answer to that, then making the most positive assumption about that is always going to help you navigate things differently. So as an example, with Harrison, now, if he comes home in a really bad mood and he's just frustrated about everything, then I will assume something probably happened at school. I don't know what it was. I wasn't there, so I can't speak to exactly what happened, but probably something happened. I will try to have a conversation with him most of the time. He won't, you know, just openly say, like, yes, X, Y, and Z happened, right? But I can at least make that assumption of, like, I don't know what happened, but something happened. Otherwise he would not be in this head space. And so I can go into that next conversation or that next situation with him with the understanding that we're not starting from the best place. We're starting from an already negative situation or bad place, whatever you want to say. And so I can approach things differently to help navigate that in a better way. But yeah, I mean, overall, all of our relationships are different. All of our relationships are better. My girls are not having the experience that they used to have every single day. They are getting to have a stronger relationship with their brother that they probably would not have at this point, and overall, we all are getting to have stronger relationships with each other, because we are better at navigating tough situations and we're better at understanding that there's more to the story than just what's right in front of our face that we can see right now. 

Danielle Bettmann  47:03  
100% and that's so priceless. How do you feel? Has Harrison's self-confidence improved his self-esteem? Where is he now? 

Marli  47:15  
Yeah, I would say it has for sure. He's definitely in a better place than he was before. He still, every once in a while, will say, I'm a bad boy. That's his go-to line. I think it's like ingrained in him, just from so many, I guess, years of saying it, he will still say it every once in a while. But we handle that so much differently than we used to, and so we're able to help him navigate through that. But overall, I would say his confidence is way better than it was before. And he also, I think, feels more secure in knowing that we have his back and knowing that we're here for him, and he gets so much more time with us, even like, individually, because I think one of the things that you and I talked about before, whenever we initially started working with you, was you get in this vicious cycle of like, you know, every day is a battle, so you find yourself avoiding spending time with them, because you're like, well, if I just don't do that, then we're not going to have that outcome, but spending the time a lot of times is exactly what you need to get to a better place, but it's the last thing you want to do, and you're like, dreading it. So now it's this combination of like, it is easier, so we want to spend the time with him, but we also know that spending the time with him helps improve things overall anyway. So all three of them get a lot more individualized attention and time. It just helps everything at the end of the day with all three of them. 

Danielle Bettmann  48:52  
No, that's so good. So what would you say to a family who resonates that is kind of sitting with those same hesitations you had, you know, I don't want to have this conversation with my partner. I can still I can do it on my own. I can figure this out. We can figure this out. We can go back to other tools we've invested in. What would you say to them? 

Marli  49:13  
First of all, go for it. Do it because you're going to be so much happier and you're going to have a lot less stress in your day-to-day life if you go for it and do it. But I would also say you have to, especially with the topic of like, I can handle it on my own, or I don't want to have that conversation with my husband or my partner. That part, to me, is key, because as much as I knew, like there's two of us in this parenting relationship, as much as I knew that I still just kept thinking, you know if I do enough, then it will counteract. Or if I do enough, then it will it'll make everything better. But in reality, you can't do all of the right things, and then have it all be undone by the other parent, and expect to have a consistent positive outcome. And so really, that is something that has to be, tackled right away. And if you plan on staying in this marriage, if you plan on staying in this relationship, then you have to be partners, and you have to address these challenges that you're facing in your family as a team. And if you don't, then unfortunately, you're not going to have the outcome that you want to have. So I definitely think that that's like number one, have that conversation with your partner. Make sure that they understand how important this is to you. And when I say like, help them understand how important this is to you. This is a conversation I have with potential sleep clients too. Help them understand your reality because of these challenges that you're having. Sometimes they don't under sometimes they don't see it all. They don't know. They don't understand, especially when you have one parent who is home more often than the other parent, they may see whatever they see when they're home. They may be frustrated too, but they don't necessarily understand the impact that all of this is having on you as a person, as a parent, as a wife, like you know, when I have all of these battles all day, the last thing I want to do is sit down on the couch and hang out and have a conversation with my husband. No like I want to go to bed, or I want to go read a book and escape from reality or whatever it might be. And so really, like having that straightforward conversation and saying, This is the impact that this is having on my entire life. And you may not see all of these things that are happening before you get home, but let me break it down for you. Let me give you a play-by-play, and help you see what this is actually doing to me, and this is why I need your help and why I want you to come on this journey with me, because I can't do it without you. So I definitely like that's the biggest thing. Have that conversation, open up that dialog, and help them see why this is so important to you. It's not just a quick fix. It's not just an investment in this program and snap your fingers and everything is going to get better. You need them to be on this journey and at 100% with you in order to see the results that you want to see. But again, overall, go for it. Do it. You won't regret it, but ensure that both parents are on board. 

Danielle Bettmann  52:35  
Yeah, all in is the requirement, which is no small feat. And of course, you know there's going to be a lot of road bumps to getting to that place, and that's why it's so impactful once you do because you know it's only up from there, and you have all of this like incredibly comprehensive support, meeting you exactly where you are and walking you one step of the way with lots of hope and lots of accountability and lots of implementation and individualization, everything we talked about it was missing, you know, in the other things that you had done, but there's understandably just a lot of hesitation to that. So what would you say was Colby's biggest hesitation, and how did you help work through that? Or what made a difference? 

Marli  53:17  
Yeah, I mean, I think that his biggest hesitation was the whole positive parenting thing, or the gentle parenting, or whatever you want to call it. And again, it's so hard whenever you have done all of the research and reading and listening and all of that. And so you understand that gentle parenting doesn't mean what he thinks it means. But I'm not an expert, and I can't really explain that to him in a way that is going to help him understand or see things differently. When he hears gentle parenting, he thinks like, oh, our kids are just going to run the house, or our kids are going to do whatever they want and have no discipline or direction or anything, and we're just going to have to be okay with that. And as much as I could say like, well, no, that's not what it is. He hadn't seen it. All he knew was what in his mind, the definition of gentle is, or the definition of positive, or whatever you want to say. And so that was definitely the biggest thing for him, was understanding that. And then what he shared with me last night was that he came into this thinking Danielle is just going to tell me exactly what to say to my child to make them turn things around. And I just need these scripts, and I just need her to tell me what to do, what to say, how to handle everything when he realized quickly in reality, instead, it was about what he could change about himself as a parent, what he could do differently, how he could handle interactions differently, and how he could transform his relationship with our kids by just approaching things differently and changing the way that he handled these interactions and like more the mindset piece. He came in thinking, I just needed the tools and the scripts, which is similar to what I thought, too. And then it was like, no, I need to change, not necessarily change who I am as a person, but change my thought process and change the way that I'm approaching situations to have that better outcome. 

Danielle Bettmann  55:37  
Yeah, which is no small feat, and does take some time and is worth the work. So was there anything we didn't cover that you wanted to speak to? 

Marli  55:55  
I think we covered mostly everything. But what I would say again is just the idea of I can tackle it on my own, or like I can go through these self-paced programs, or I can read this book and magically be able to transform this relationship with my child, I'd say, very rarely does that work. I think, you know, having the accountability and having the individualized support is where it's at like that is the biggest difference and game changer for all of this was, again, the ability to come in and say, here's exactly what happened last night, here's how I handled it. Was that right? Should I have done something different? And then on top of that, being able to hear from others who were in the same situation was so huge. So, you know, I think that it doesn't hurt to have a lot of knowledge. It doesn't hurt having all of this information, and it will help to some extent, but getting that individualized support and feedback is going to be key. 

Danielle Bettmann  57:05  
The last question on this topic I wanted to bring up is now that you know what you know and you didn't know what you didn't know before, what explanation would you have for why you feel like Harrison was struggling so much?

Marli  57:18  
I really think we were stuck in that cycle of he's hard to be around, so I don't want to be around him. And of course, we were around like he needs us to survive, right? Like we were around him, but we weren't intentional with any time that we were spending with him. We were avoiding that individualized time, we were avoiding anything that we thought might lead to a meltdown. And so I think that that really was the big part of it. And then I also think that just naturally, our kids have different personalities and have different needs and have different ways that they handle or react to things. And so I mentioned in the beginning that things were so easy when Lennon was by herself, and even whenever he was just a baby and she was a toddler, and they just have very different personalities. And so I think he also was seeing that she was getting different treatments almost than he was. She was getting more individualized attention. She was getting more probably cuddled and loved and all of these things that he wanted so badly and so that even more so took him to this place of, I'm going to do whatever I need to do to get that, even if it's negative. And so he would throw even bigger of a fit, or he would melt down even more frequently. So it was just again, I think it was this vicious cycle that we just had to, at some point, put a pin in it and say, we're stopping from here on out, and we're going to start things in a new way from here on out. And that cycle breaking had to happen.

Danielle Bettmann  59:00  
Yes,  in a really big way that you have a lot of support to do, because your intentions trying to do that and hit reset only get you so far. And that's what feels so defeating because you tried a lot of that before.

Marli  59:14  
I think one other thing that we didn't talk about is just the complexity of having three kids. It is so much easier, I think whenever there's one or maybe even two, I don't know, we've had three for over four years now. So it's hard for me to even say, but I think that that naturally adds another layer of complexity to the situation where it's not even just like I don't want to spend time with you, but it's more of like I don't have the time. I can't split myself into three pieces to be able to spend time with each of you individually if Colby is not home, or if one of them isn't asleep or whatever it might look like, and so that's something that we still struggle with a little bit, but we've figured it out for the most part. And I think as they get older, it's going to continue to have to transform and our approach is going to have to continue to change. But I do think that that's a complexity that you don't often hear people talking about. It's just navigating a situation like that with three kids and beyond, I can't even imagine with four or five or six, but that is just a natural challenge that comes with having multiple children is you don't want to deal with the meltdown, but you also don't have the time to sit there and take a pause and say, like, how can I approach things differently? Because you have your four-year-old that is yelling, saying they're ready to get off the potty, and you're like, oh, but I have to finish dealing with this. So yeah, I think that's definitely another piece of that that is challenging, that you just have to figure out how to navigate and how to make it work for your family and your circumstances.

Danielle Bettmann  1:01:06  
That's very real, and I'm so glad you named that, because to solve a problem, you really have to be able to fully describe all the complexities, all the nuances, all the things that contribute to this, like tumbleweed that you know becomes what you can't pull apart or just name too simply, and in my professional opinion, I think families with three have the hardest time. So validation for that. 

Marli  1:01:32  
Thank you. I appreciate it for real. And I thought of one more thing. I feel like I keep thinking of things, but one more thing that I think is important to call out that you helped us so much with is don't be afraid to do things differently for your family, like don't be afraid to identify if something isn't working for you, even if you think it's the right way to do things if it is not serving the goals of your family if it's not serving the outcome that you're looking for. And I remember we were in a deep challenge during our time with you around homework and identifying how to because, again, three kids, like, I'm trying to do homework with two of them. Our youngest was, like, barely three at the time, so she was very, you know, high needs. She needed me, and we ended up even though we thought that the right thing to do was to have them in this super accelerated, challenging school that was not our public school. So we made a choice to put them in this really difficult goal, and it felt like we were going to be bad parents if we made a different decision and took them out of that school and put them maybe in a less rigorous curriculum that was going to make us bad parents, we had to have a real conversation about like, who is this serving and is it really leading us to the result that we want for our family, which is to have a happy, cohesive, positive relationship with all of our children and all of these things at the end of the day, that's what's most important. And so that helped us feel more confident with making that decision to take them out of that program and put them into a different school. And the transformation that we've seen, and it hasn't been that long, but the transformation that we've seen, and just their joy and their happiness and even confidence and their abilities and everything like that has been huge. So I think a lot of times we get trapped in this mindset of, I have to do this thing because it makes me a good parent. No, you need to do what is right for your children and right for yourself and all of those things, and not necessarily do what you think others will perceive as being the right thing or the best thing or whatever else. 

Danielle Bettmann  1:01:06  
I fully, agree. So proud of you for making that hard decision and for reckoning through that, because it's no no easy thing to do. But I heard a quote on that last week, and it's just been sitting with me ever since, which is someone said, that no one can tell you that you're a good parent except your own kid. And I was like that, I feel like that checks out.  But I mean, it comes down to really making the right decision and for the right reason, and being able to then have the support to be convicted in that enough to find the confidence that allows other, you know, pushback or shoulds or things roll off your back and without really being able to work through it at a deeper level, you know, when push comes to shove, you're going to go back to what you think you should, or makes you on the outside look good or feel good and that's not, you know, where our gut comes from. So of course, then we're going to feel conflicted and icky about it, but something that thank you for, again, speaking to that too, because it's such a relatable circumstance. And I think a big part of finding your feet as a parent is making some of those hard decisions, and then feeling like the effects of that was the right decision. That's, you know, proof that really does actually build your confidence. Because you're like, Yeah, I do know my kids, and I am making, you know, the one to make these decisions for them. So when we chatted, I always asked new families, how does parenting feel? And how many, you know, outbursts are we having? And then we kind of track that as we go. So let's end, like put a bow around things. When you started the program, how did parenting feel? How many meltdowns were you having? And then you know, where were you at towards the end? 

Marli  1:05:54  
Yeah, so I would say parenting felt impossible, and it felt very confusing and defeating. I don't know the right word, but I felt, every single day, defeated. I felt guilty and all of the negative words you can think of, it did not feel good. I mean, like, even to the point of questioning, like, should we be parents? Like, can we even handle this? What are we doing wrong? So, yeah, it did not feel good at all, and we were having meltdowns every single day, sometimes multiple times a day, depending on, you know, whether he was at school or home. Yeah, it did not feel good.

Danielle Bettmann  1:06:26  
And now, how would you describe how parenting feels? 

Marli  1:06:38  
Yeah, I mean, I would say parenting, in and of itself, is challenging. Like, I am never going to say it's like, oh my gosh, it's the easiest thing ever. It's still challenging, but it feels doable. It feels like I know how to navigate most situations, if not the majority of situations. I would not say all, because we always have things that we don't know how to handle, keep ourselves simple. I mean, like it feels good because even when things are tough, I know how to get us back to a good place. And I think I mentioned this, I don't remember if I did actually, but from a meltdown perspective, or, like, maybe one a week. And even at that, they are nowhere near the level that they were previously like. It is extremely rare for us to have these major on-the-floor meltdowns. Those are maybe once a month if even that, but we're having some minor meltdowns maybe once a week, so just completely, completely different, like I said earlier, I don't dread picking them up from school, and that's a great thing. I don't dread having every single little interaction with Harrison, because I know that it's not going to be like it was before, yeah, oh, that's so life-giving. 

Danielle Bettmann  1:07:59  
Yes. I'm so glad, and I could see that future for you when I met you, and I was like, I really hope I get to see this all the way through because that's such a joy for me to get a front-row seat too. It's the best. That's why I love doing what I do. So before I let you go, you are a sleep expert, and I want to make sure that you kind of share how listeners can find your work, but you said that you love getting asked, 'Why is sleep so important for families?' Yeah. So will you give us some sort of blurb on that? 

Marli  1:08:35  
Yes, so sleep is not something we ever struggled with, because I've always been obsessed with sleep, and I knew from the very beginning with all of my kids that that was something that was important to me and that was going to help them overall. Sleep is important for families on so many levels, but really because as parents, we can't be our best selves in any aspect of life, if we're not getting the sleep that we need, and therefore that translates to us not being great parents, because we're not able to have the patience or the ability to see things differently, or any of that, because we're so exhausted that we can't even think straight. So sleep is incredibly important on so many different fronts, but really, really ties into parenting, because we are just unable to be the best versions of ourselves when we're not getting sleep, and our kids are not able to be the best versions of themselves or be the healthiest versions of themselves when they're not getting the sleep that they need. And I think that so many times, parents can see sleep training or just improving sleep in any sort of way, or independent sleep as a negative thing or as something that they should feel guilty about wanting, because they think that it's just them, you know, wishing that they were back to pre-parenting life where they could sleep whenever they wanted to, or that they were taking something away from their children, when in reality, we're giving them the gift of one of the most important aspects of our entire health, which any expert on the planet, regardless of their stance on sleep training, will tell you that sleep is like the most important thing to your health, and if it's the most important thing for our health, it is also the most important thing for our children's health. So I could go on and on about this for the rest of my life, but basically, sleep is incredibly important because it is important for us to be the best versions of ourselves, and then also for all of us, including our kids, to be the healthiest that we can be and have a chance at fighting off illness and being able to have these positive relationships that we want. 

Danielle Bettmann  1:10:48  
I fully, fully support that. And again, could probably talk on the topic with you forever, too. But I do think that there is kind of a chronic epidemic of overtired kids that have a hard time because they don't have everything to give in their tank, and they wake up with less, and we wake up with less, and then it's just, you know, downhill from there. So I do make a big point of supporting families with sleep while we work together as well because you're never going to be able to make the outcomes possible that you want with behavior and your own patience if we don't address that, it's a prerequisite. So tell us about all the ways that we can connect with your work. 

Marli  1:11:29  
Yeah, so the main thing that I'm focused on now is actually training new sleep consultants. So we have a sleep consultant certification program where we help women with everything that they need to become sleep experts, to be able to transform families' lives with better sleep, and then also be able to start and run a successful business. So the Cradle Coach Academy is my sleep consultant certification program and business. We also do Parent Coach Certification, and we also do Newborn Care Specialist Certification. So you can find us on Instagram at The Cradle Coach Academy, or you can go to thecradlecoachacademy.com and then our sleep side of things, where we still do sleep consulting and on-one support with families, is The Cradle Coach. So almost the same The Cradle Coach and The Cradle Coach Academy, and you can also find us exactly the same on Instagram at The Cradle Coach and the cradlecoach.com.

Danielle Bettmann  1:12:25  
I love it perfectly. I'll have all that in the show notes. Thank you again for all your wisdom, all your honesty, vulnerability and just being able to get to know your family and work with you. It has been such an honor, such a treat. I'm so proud of you. You should feel so proud of yourselves and continue to just sail off into the sunset with the better days that you made inevitable through your investment in your work. Just keep it up. Keep going, and I can't wait to follow your journey professionally as well, and we'll stay connected, I'm sure. 

Marli  1:12:58  
Yes, awesome. Thank you so much. We appreciate you and everything that you've done to support our family so we couldn't have done it without you.

Danielle Bettmann  1:13:12  
Thank you so much for tuning into this episode of Failing Motherhood. Your kids are so lucky to have you. If you loved this episode, take a screenshot right now share it in your Instagram stories, and tag me. If you love the podcast, be sure that you've subscribed and leave a review so we can help more moms know they are not alone if they feel like they're failing motherhood daily, and if you're ready to transform your relationship with your strong willed child, and invest in the support you need to make it happen - schedule your free consultation using the link in the show notes. I can't wait to meet you. Thanks for coming on this journey with me. I believe in you and I'm cheering you on.